New Vacuum Pump option for OM617 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BillGrissom · #1 11-12-2024, 12:24 PM

Hopefully P-P isn't offended by this info since I don't see them listing a vacuum pump anymore. Last time I saw a new Pierburg pump on ebay, it was >$500 and even rebuild kits for the 1-tube type ask ~$200. People even ask $100 for a used outlet check valve, why most are missing in the salvage yards. If one of those few remaining original M-B owners here who are fussy and enjoy writing big checks, punch out now. Fellow bottom-feeders, who mostly own these cars now, can read on.

Surprised when a new vac pump popped up in an Ali Express ad for ~$100. Never bought from them so suspicious, but people say OK if you check the seller's feedback. Similar to ebay sellers, with less protection, so be aware of scammers there. I ordered one (~$120 w/ shipping) and it arrived as shown in just a few days, from L.A. area so someone must stock a few. I even thought of buying more to flip on ebay for $250 since clueless might think still a great deal, but not that elonish, plus wouldn't do that without first running one 10K miles on my own car. For now it is just a spare.

It looks just like the Pierburg pump, but laser-burned PN letters w/ no brand name. The rubber parts are different colors than the Pierburg, like a black top rubber seal (instead of green) and orange seals in the check valves. Had the same two springs on the piston and appeared to take about the same force to push in the piston as a used Pierburg on my shelf. I didn't disassemble to see what type of piston-seal is used. Pierburg used a special leather & teflon seal, but doesn't mean a modern design wouldn't work fine.

The risk is that the roller bearing can fail to put parts in the engine. When that happens, you hear a rattling. If you catch early, you avoid big damage. Happened in my 1985 (Pierburg pump) and drove ~100 miles before searching for the source of the tapping noise. By then, the arm inside the pump had worn half thru from dragging on the roller-coaster ramp, so don't ignore. Had the arm detached and slid into the timing chain, it can (has) ruin an engine. In my case, I found most of the ball bearings in the oil pan. Tried to find the others with a small magnet-on-stick, but a few are still in the engine, perhaps sitting in the upper oil pan if haven't come out in a later oil change. Anyway, know your risks and don't blame me if you buy this Chinese pump and it fails. I'm just glad to have an affordable option. I had even collected parts to rig an electric vac pump if orphaned.

Diesel911 · #2 11-13-2024, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

Hopefully P-P isn't offended by this info since I don't see them listing a vacuum pump anymore. Last time I saw a new Pierburg pump on ebay, it was >$500 and even rebuild kits for the 1-tube type ask ~$200. People even ask $100 for a used outlet check valve, why most are missing in the salvage yards. If one of those few remaining original M-B owners here who are fussy and enjoy writing big checks, punch out now. Fellow bottom-feeders, who mostly own these cars now, can read on.

Surprised when a new vac pump popped up in an Ali Express ad for ~$100. Never bought from them so suspicious, but people say OK if you check the seller's feedback. Similar to ebay sellers, with less protection, so be aware of scammers there. I ordered one (~$120 w/ shipping) and it arrived as shown in just a few days, from L.A. area so someone must stock a few. I even thought of buying more to flip on ebay for $250 since clueless might think still a great deal, but not that elonish, plus wouldn't do that without first running one 10K miles on my own car. For now it is just a spare.

It looks just like the Pierburg pump, but laser-burned PN letters w/ no brand name. The rubber parts are different colors than the Pierburg, like a black top rubber seal (instead of green) and orange seals in the check valves. Had the same two springs on the piston and appeared to take about the same force to push in the piston as a used Pierburg on my shelf. I didn't disassemble to see what type of piston-seal is used. Pierburg used a special leather & teflon seal, but doesn't mean a modern design wouldn't work fine.

The risk is that the roller bearing can fail to put parts in the engine. When that happens, you hear a rattling. If you catch early, you avoid big damage. Happened in my 1985 (Pierburg pump) and drove ~100 miles before searching for the source of the tapping noise. By then, the arm inside the pump had worn half thru from dragging on the roller-coaster ramp, so don't ignore. Had the arm detached and slid into the timing chain, it can (has) ruin an engine. In my case, I found most of the ball bearings in the oil pan. Tried to find the others with a small magnet-on-stick, but a few are still in the engine, perhaps sitting in the upper oil pan if haven't come out in a later oil change. Anyway, know your risks and don't blame me if you buy this Chinese pump and it fails. I'm just glad to have an affordable option. I had even collected parts to rig an electric vac pump if orphaned.

I am going to make guess that you are likely the first one to notice them on Aliexpress.

I was just looking and it is listed as AP02 Brake System Vacuum Pump For MERCEDES 100 T1 601 602 631 C123 S123 0002301365

$100 with $27.27 shipping charge.

In the last 2 years I have ordered a lot of small items from Aliexpress and another company Temu.com. The largest thing I ordered from Aliexpress was a painted steel shed similar to an Arrow painted steel shed. So yes, the Aliexpress I order from is real.

However, most of my orders are under $30.

Concerning fitment of parts and quality is an issue I cannot comment on.

What was selling at one time was rebuilt peiburg vacuum pumps, but I have not followed that.

Diesel911 · #3 11-13-2024, 12:41 AM

Concerning the check valve that screws into the vacuum pump. When the parts fall out of that I believe you can get some rubber vacuum hose and remove the plastic hose from the nipple on at end of the vacuum fitting and use that hose to install a generic vacuum check valve.

There are different sizes of generic vacuum valves on eBay and made of different materials. The ones shown are aluminum. They also have different sized hose nipples on them.

Note that I have not done that myself. Although I did buy a set of the aluminum check valves as shown.

BillGrissom · #4 11-13-2024, 03:50 PM

True also for the main vacuum line (plastic) near the brake booster w/ check-valve and 2 small nipples. You could easily replumb it with generic parts, like I even recall an inline booster check-valve in HELP bubble-packs at Autozone. When a nipple broke off mine (careful where you rest your elbows), I drilled the plastic hole larger to fit 1/8" (recall) copper tube stub which I epoxied in place. Worked for years until I swapped in a salvage yard one.

A few people here rigged in an electric vacuum pump, but haven't heard how that worked since designed to provide brake boost in a Euro diesel (VW, Audi), whereas our app requires it to run regularly to meet the VCV draw. I have a used one but never tried. I don't recall if I found an affordable vacuum switch. I do have a cover to replace the M-B pump (for a truck wheel, matching holes), though jury is out on whether the Timing gear requires the axial load from the vac pump spring.

Re those Chinese sites, I just received an airless (h.p. pump) paint sprayer from Temu for $126. It looks identical to a $190 one on Amazon, and perhaps same as a lower-end Graco branded sprayer sold at Home Depot (~$300). For next pass spraying our kitchen cabinets, since struggled with prior sprayers on the thick urethane paint (used HVLP and air-turbine sprayers). Always suspicious of those sites since descriptions were even sketchier than many Amazon sellers, and less assurance from the sites, but others recommended them, and so far all good. Some now have ads as slick as the better sellers on Amazon. I found almost essential when fixing a toilet at wifey's house in Jakarta since they don't have parts stores like U.S. (even Ace Hardware there doesn't sell nuts and bolts, just retail stuff), so I bought parts on tokopedia.

Shern · #5 11-14-2024, 06:48 AM

Curious why you changed the part?

I’ve done this myself (elbow on nipple) and had to buy a new part.
Your fix sounds like an upgrade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

True also for the main vacuum line (plastic) near the brake booster w/ check-valve and 2 small nipples. You could easily replumb it with generic parts, like I even recall an inline booster check-valve in HELP bubble-packs at Autozone. When a nipple broke off mine (careful where you rest your elbows), I drilled the plastic hole larger to fit 1/8" (recall) copper tube stub which I epoxied in place. Worked for years until I swapped in a salvage yard one.

A few people here rigged in an electric vacuum pump, but haven't heard how that worked since designed to provide brake boost in a Euro diesel (VW, Audi), whereas our app requires it to run regularly to meet the VCV draw. I have a used one but never tried. I don't recall if I found an affordable vacuum switch. I do have a cover to replace the M-B pump (for a truck wheel, matching holes), though jury is out on whether the Timing gear requires the axial load from the vac pump spring.

Re those Chinese sites, I just received an airless (h.p. pump) paint sprayer from Temu for $126. It looks identical to a $190 one on Amazon, and perhaps same as a lower-end Graco branded sprayer sold at Home Depot (~$300). For next pass spraying our kitchen cabinets, since struggled with prior sprayers on the thick urethane paint (used HVLP and air-turbine sprayers). Always suspicious of those sites since descriptions were even sketchier than many Amazon sellers, and less assurance from the sites, but others recommended them, and so far all good. Some now have ads as slick as the better sellers on Amazon. I found almost essential when fixing a toilet at wifey's house in Jakarta since they don't have parts stores like U.S. (even Ace Hardware there doesn't sell nuts and bolts, just retail stuff), so I bought parts on tokopedia.

ykobayashi · #6 11-17-2024, 01:10 AM

I rebuilt my vacuum booster hose with one of these. It was before URO released their replacement part (listed at Pelican). I had to get black nylon PA fuel hose. It is a bear to assemble and I had to make custom presses to force the hose on the barbs. With the URO replacement out there I would not attempt building this again. I also had to add orifices because the original MB part has pinhole restrictions on the nipples and the Scirrocco part does not.

The presses were 3D printed to fit into a caulk gun. I kind of cribbed and modified a free design I found online.

GENUINE Non-return Valve WW AUDI Corrado Golf Jetta Passat
Scirocco 191611933A

Custom press:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3390832

That Chinese pump looks scary. The penalty of failure is steep. The bearings can grenade the engine. And there are a lot of other parts like the roller and the rocker arm that could potentially fall apart. I think I’ll take my chances with a pierburg from the JY.

Geebers…the price on the Chinese pump is so low it is tempting to get one and put it on the shelf. Maybe it’s worth tearing it down for a new piston seal and for the three internal check valves that were basically the contents of the old pierburg rebuild kit that is NLA.

Diesel911 · #7 11-17-2024, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykobayashi

I rebuilt my vacuum booster hose with one of these. It was before URO released their replacement part (listed at Pelican). I had to get black nylon PA fuel hose. It is a bear to assemble and I had to make custom presses to force the hose on the barbs. With the URO replacement out there I would not attempt building this again. I also had to add orifices because the original MB part has pinhole restrictions on the nipples and the Scirrocco part does not.

The presses were 3D printed to fit into a caulk gun. I kind of cribbed and modified a free design I found online.

GENUINE Non-return Valve WW AUDI Corrado Golf Jetta Passat
Scirocco 191611933A

Custom press:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3390832

That Chinese pump looks scary. The penalty of failure is steep. The bearings can grenade the engine. And there are a lot of other parts like the roller and the rocker arm that could potentially fall apart. I think I’ll take my chances with a pierburg from the JY.

Geebers…the price on the Chinese pump is so low it is tempting to get one and put it on the shelf. Maybe it’s worth tearing it down for a new piston seal and for the three internal check valves that were basically the contents of the old pierburg rebuild kit that is NLA.

When I removed the plastic tube from the forward part of the main vacuum line, I just replaced it with rubber vacuum hose of the appropriate size. No issues with that. Cheap and simple.

URO Parts Support · #8 12-18-2024, 07:36 PM

Hi guys, Pelican now offers URO Parts Diesel Vacuum Pump 000 230 1365: https://www.pelicanparts.com/search/?q=000+230+1365

vstech · #9 12-18-2024, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URO Parts Support

Hi guys, Pelican now offers URO Parts Diesel Vacuum Pump 000 230 1365: https://www.pelicanparts.com/search/?q=000+230+1365

photos of the offerings would be cool...

URO Parts Support · #10 12-19-2024, 11:37 AM

Pelican should have the photos added to their catalog soon, but in the meantime you can see them on our website: https://apaindustries.com/parts/19141

BenzAplenty · #11 01-07-2025, 06:09 PM

My rather poor condition and on its last leg 85 300d turbo diesel needed a vacuum pump.
So, I installed one of the $100 plus $27 shipping one's last week.
It works. That's all I got to offer on that.