Starting OM606 by jumping K40

[Proctor750]

There's something weird with the key/ignition where the car only engages the starter for a split second so I moved to the K40 Relay to jumper 30/87 and the starter spins freely.

I have a temporary hose going from a jerry can into the fuel heater instead of the line from the tank, and a temporary return line from filter head to same jerry can effectively bypassing the tank and tank lines.

It appears fuel is moving through all clear hoses but nothing is coming from the delivery valves and hardlines if disconnected at the pump to view.

I assume you can start the the OM606 by jumping the relay or is that incorrect?
I am unsure if the shutoff valve solenoid is energized or not. Key is in RUN position while I jump 30/87.

[TimFreeh]

The OM606 turbo utilizes an injection pump under computer control, its called the EDC system and it can manipulate fuel delivery via a rack position solenoid.

It's not an old mechanical pump anymore, the computer has to be involved for operation.

Without authorization from the start sequence via the IR key it will not operate the pump.

[Proctor750]

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

The OM606 turbo utilizes an injection pump under computer control, its called the EDC system and it can manipulate fuel delivery via a rack position solenoid.

It's not an old mechanical pump anymore, the computer has to be involved for operation.

Without authorization from the start sequence via the IR key it will not operate the pump.

That would be correct. This is why I put the laser key into the ignition into "RUN" position.


So, are you saying that the authorization will only happen if the key is in "Cranking" position?



If so, if I have someone hold the key in "crank" position while I jump the k40, does this satisfy all requirements?


I think the shutoff valve is the only way to effectively "block" access to starting if the starter spins as the rack in "static" position would still deliver fuel as it's still mechanically driven.



Also, the fuel moving through the lines indicates the lift pump is actuating.

[TimFreeh]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

There's something weird with the key/ignition where the car only engages the starter for a split second.....

I believe this is an indication something in the drive authorization sequence has failed. The EIS validates the laser key and then sends authorization to the ECU that manages the injection pump to permit operation - no authorization no start. The fact that you can see fuel flowing through the supply/return lines doesn't mean anything - it's a mechanical pump.

The EDC pump control used in the OM606 turbo is not the same as the old purely mechanical pumps of the earlier engines.

I recall testing this on my OM606, it I pulled the fuse that fed power to the EDC control unit the car immediately quit and would not restart until the fuse was present.

Do you have another key? I'd try that.

Again I think you have some sort of drive authorization failure. You won't be able to bypass the stop solenoid or manually jump the K40 start relay without the proper start authorization process being completed.

[Proctor750]

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

I believe this is an indication something in the drive authorization sequence has failed. The EIS validates the laser key and then sends authorization to the ECU that manages the injection pump to permit operation - no authorization no start. The fact that you can see fuel flowing through the supply/return lines doesn't mean anything - it's a mechanical pump.

The EDC pump control used in the OM606 turbo is not the same as the old purely mechanical pumps of the earlier engines.

I recall testing this on my OM606, it I pulled the fuse that fed power to the EDC control unit the car immediately quit and would not restart until the fuse was present.

Do you have another key? I'd try that.

Again I think you have some sort of drive authorization failure. You won't be able to bypass the stop solenoid or manually jump the K40 start relay without the proper start authorization process being completed.

Understood. Unfortunately I have just the one key.
The car sometimes does nothing in crank position yet other times it will crank for a second or two. Never long enough to clear the massive amount of air that it needs to clear through the hardlines to injectors.

I only wanted to start the motor to confirm it's condition before pulling it out. I will eventually swap a 603 pump on it and install in my w126 so I had not planned on investing in anything w210 related.

Short of a new key and ignition unit it goes into, what other steps might be taken to allow the car to start? Is there a way to jump the pins on the shutoff solenoid?
If unplugged, does it default to open or shutoff?

[TimFreeh]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Understood. Unfortunately I have just the one key.
The car sometimes does nothing in crank position yet other times it will crank for a second or two. Never long enough to clear the massive amount of air that it needs to clear through the hardlines to injectors.

I only wanted to start the motor to confirm it's condition before pulling it out. I will eventually swap a 603 pump on it and install in my w126 so I had not planned on investing in anything w210 related.

Short of a new key and ignition unit it goes into, what other steps might be taken to allow the car to start? Is there a way to jump the pins on the shutoff solenoid?
If unplugged, does it default to open or shutoff?

I'm not sure if there's a way to operate the EDC controlled pump without cooperation from the EDC control unit. Based upon my prior mentioned experiments with pulling the EDC fuse I suspect its not possible.

I was reviewing some of my DAS information and I came across this link from BenzWhirled.

https://www.benzworld.org/threads/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-das.1245088/

I believe the W210 CDI uses the DAS3 system for start/drive authorization, if the above link is correct the EIS passes data about the rolling code to the ECM where it's validated and a start is authorized. This apparently happens over the CAN so I'd make sure there is power/ground to the EDC control unit.

Without access to Star diagnostic level tools I think this is about all you can do, with Star tools you could go in and see the authorization status of the ECM and if the CAN is active. Not worth the trouble if its just a engine donor that will be mechanically controlled.

What is the history of the W210? DId you buy it as a non-runner for the engine swap project?

[Proctor750]

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

I'm not sure if there's a way to operate the EDC controlled pump without cooperation from the EDC control unit. Based upon my prior mentioned experiments with pulling the EDC fuse I suspect its not possible.

I was reviewing some of my DAS information and I came across this link from BenzWhirled.

https://www.benzworld.org/threads/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-das.1245088/

I believe the W210 CDI uses the DAS3 system for start/drive authorization, if the above link is correct the EIS passes data about the rolling code to the ECM where it's validated and a start is authorized. This apparently happens over the CAN so I'd make sure there is power/ground to the EDC control unit.

Without access to Star diagnostic level tools I think this is about all you can do, with Star tools you could go in and see the authorization status of the ECM and if the CAN is active. Not worth the trouble if its just a engine donor that will be mechanically controlled.

What is the history of the W210? DId you buy it as a non-runner for the engine swap project?

Also - do you know if the pre-glow has anything to do with the EIS authentication? I.E it won't even allow pre-glow if Authentication is not confirmed?
I ask because I am not getting a glow light on dash BUT I do get a solenoid click intermittently from what I suspect is the shutoff valve. I need to get someone to turn the key while I am under the hood.

[Proctor750]

Yes. Bizarre it allows various start intervals at all vs just 0 starter engagement every time.
Shutoff valve and heater appear to have been replaced based on the excess RTV poking out the mating surfaces..

Found the car at a shop, some guy said it sat for years and when he failed to get it running he took it to the shop who replaced a few of the clear hoses. They came back with an estimate and guy sold them the car. I got it from the shop and that's about all the history.
The ignition assembly is very loose in the dash, i had to back the escuchen off and hold it steady from under the steering column to get the key to release.
I also find it noteworthy that no glow light appears when key is in run position but all other lights appear. I may hook an obd2 scanner up to see if any codes are present.
No access to Star at the moment.

Oh, the axle was disconnected from diff by previous owner when towing to shop. Not sure why as it shifts to neutral. I know something about gear selection will impact start but again, it does spin the starter when turning the key at various durations.

[compu_85]

As others have noted - the EDC has to move the fuel rack off the 0 position. Without this, no fuel will be delivered.

It might be possible to drive the rack manually - but you want to be *very* careful to not cause a runaway event!

-J

[Proctor750]

Originally Posted by compu_85

As others have noted - the EDC has to move the fuel rack off the 0 position. Without this, no fuel will be delivered.

It might be possible to drive the rack manually - but you want to be *very* careful to not cause a runaway event!

-J

If the EDC pump has a position which doesn't allow fuel to flow, why is there a separate shutoff solenoid?

[TimFreeh]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

If the EDC pump has a position which doesn't allow fuel to flow, why is there a separate shutoff solenoid?

Because Mercedes always over engineers everything maybe? A fuel shutoff isn't going to take the place of the traditional rack shut off implemented on the mechanical pumps.

Do you have your mechanical OM603 pump yet? Why not just install it now and bypass the whole silly Mercedes start authorization thing?

The more I see/learn about the start authorization process and the attendant multiple computer modules that are married together and have to be version coded when replaced combined with sending rolling codes back and forth across the CAN the more absurd the whole scheme seems.

You'd think, given the complexities, that we're authorizing the launch of nuclear missiles? Rube Goldberg would be envious of the DAS process.

Your scan tool data seems a little weird, why is it reporting an RPM value when the engine isn't running? I'm always a little leery of these aftermarket scan tools.

According to the tool though the ECU is showing no authorization, I think this is the problem you're facing. The fact that the EIS clicks and unlocks when you insert the key tells you that the EIS does recognize the key. At that point its supposed to contact the EDC pump ECU and request start authorization - but apparently that's not happening.

Some of the documentation of the DAS3 process indicate that the EIS sends a code to the EDC control module for authorization, not sure how this process works or how to troubleshoot it but I'd guess Star Diagnostic tools and an experienced tech would be required. It's going to be hard to find people that remember how to work on a 24 year old low-volume Mercedes computer controlled diesel that was only in production a couple of years with the EDC system. Even then suppose the EDC control unit is determined to be faulty? The ECU's for the later W211 CDI's are no longer available and when they were it was the better part of $2k for replacement. The EDC system seems to combine all the complexities of computer control with none of the benefits of the later OM613 and OM648 CDI systems that at least could offer multiple injection events and much more precise fueling strategies. The EDC system is the worst of both approaches with none of the benefits.

Just put the mechanical pump on and do away with all the DAS nonsense.

[Proctor750]

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

Because Mercedes always over engineers everything maybe? A fuel shutoff isn't going to take the place of the traditional rack shut off implemented on the mechanical pumps.

Do you have your mechanical OM603 pump yet? Why not just install it now and bypass the whole silly Mercedes start authorization thing?

The more I see/learn about the start authorization process and the attendant multiple computer modules that are married together and have to be version coded when replaced combined with sending rolling codes back and forth across the CAN the more absurd the whole scheme seems.

You'd think, given the complexities, that we're authorizing the launch of nuclear missiles? Rube Goldberg would be envious of the DAS process.

Your scan tool data seems a little weird, why is it reporting an RPM value when the engine isn't running? I'm always a little leery of these aftermarket scan tools.

According to the tool though the ECU is showing no authorization, I think this is the problem you're facing. The fact that the EIS clicks and unlocks when you insert the key tells you that the EIS does recognize the key. At that point its supposed to contact the EDC pump ECU and request start authorization - but apparently that's not happening.

Some of the documentation of the DAS3 process indicate that the EIS sends a code to the EDC control module for authorization, not sure how this process works or how to troubleshoot it but I'd guess Star Diagnostic tools and an experienced tech would be required. It's going to be hard to find people that remember how to work on a 24 year old low-volume Mercedes computer controlled diesel that was only in production a couple of years with the EDC system. Even then suppose the EDC control unit is determined to be faulty? The ECU's for the later W211 CDI's are no longer available and when they were it was the better part of $2k for replacement. The EDC system seems to combine all the complexities of computer control with none of the benefits of the later OM613 and OM648 CDI systems that at least could offer multiple injection events and much more precise fueling strategies. The EDC system is the worst of both approaches with none of the benefits.

Just put the mechanical pump on and do away with all the DAS nonsense.

I bought the w210 for the motor. I want to confirm it runs before yanking it and ditching the car along with the EDC then refreshing everything on a stand.
I feel like putting up with the DAS to get it running first is probably easier than pulling the glow plugs for a compression test....


So we are sure that jumping the K40 relay while giving pin 3 on the shutoff solenoid 12v won't bypass the whole situation? Or are you saying that the rack position won't pump fuel at all? I didn't know such a position existed other than the 603 racks where you physically move a lever to reach it.

[TimFreeh]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

I bought the w210 for the motor. I want to confirm it runs before yanking it and ditching the car along with the EDC then refreshing everything on a stand.
I feel like putting up with the DAS to get it running first is probably easier than pulling the glow plugs for a compression test....


So we are sure that jumping the K40 relay while giving pin 3 on the shutoff solenoid 12v won't bypass the whole situation? Or are you saying that the rack position won't pump fuel at all? I didn't know such a position existed other than the 603 racks where you physically move a lever to reach it.

I'm pretty sure it won't run, it's pretty easy to try and see.

As I've said before the EDC system has full control of the rack position and fueling in this application and I don't believe it'll run without ECU involvement.

[Proctor750]

Here are the codes, I couldn't go through the 38 port as I forgot to grab an S34 personality key for the adapter. OBD scan yielded the following.
Advice?

[dieselbenz1]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Here are the codes, I couldn't go through the 38 port as I forgot to grab an S34 personality key for the adapter. OBD scan yielded the following.
Advice?

It appears your gear selector is not telling the ecu its in P or N. Could be just the micro switches in the selector?