New EPA Diesel Report - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TClanton · #1 09-03-2002, 09:22 PM

Anybody else see this article today?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/803017.asp?pne=11947&0ct=-300

Looks like the smog patrols are coming after us.....of course, I usually try and make sure I'm AHEAD of the exhaust at take-off....

Terry

diesel don · #2 09-03-2002, 09:25 PM

The kids in our youth group that drive diesels were buzzing about it earlier in the day. Perhaps we'll get some of the cleaner models over here more quickly.

Don

TClanton · #3 09-03-2002, 09:37 PM

Heck, they'll just try to ban them altogether....it would be to forward thinking to make them burn cleaner. The knee-jerk will be to put them all in little diesel camps.....:p

190D22 · #4 09-03-2002, 10:30 PM

There is no way they can change requirements on our cars. They were legal in the year they were sold, so therefore there is no way to expect us to pass regulations. No need to worry!

psfred · #5 09-03-2002, 10:38 PM

I suspect you can thank the trucking industry for this one -- those huge clouds of inky smoke from heavy trucks that are finally beginning to dissapear. They have lobbied very hard for many years to prevent ANY regulation of trucks (except to make the much heavier than the roads can withstand), and clean burning engines running clean fuel were the most important things to avoid.

Pure foolishness, like usual, but we are stuck with the result. Diesesl soot contains a number of carcinogens, but biodiesel (or even simply oxygenated diesel fuel) rather than the "stuff left over after we make gasoline and tar" have much, much less of this stuff.

The other thing that gets overlooked is that gasoline engines produce a considerable amount of metalic oxide particulate, too, and it isn't much better healthwise.

Easier to pick on diesel trucks rather than give up that big, fat, unsafe roadhog SUV........!

Peter

lrg · #6 09-04-2002, 12:31 AM

Psfred,

Don't get me started on the "benefits" of MTBE in gasoline. I totally agree on the SUV thing. I got a laugh though, some local environmental types were putting bumper stickers on big SUVs in malls that read, "I'm changing the environment, ask me how." Diesels, while not perfect, can be a good alternative if allowed to be done properly.

P.E.Haiges · #7 09-04-2002, 01:44 AM

Every time I click on the MSNBC report, my computer screws up and I have to reboot it. Never had this problem an any other URL.

Anyone else have this problem?

P E H

psfred · #8 09-04-2002, 07:20 PM

LRG:

That's almost as good as the people with "Kids First" license plates holding their grandkids on their lap while the weave around in heavy traffic talking on the cell phone!

MTBE does great things to the gasoline, engines love it. Too bad it is very toxic, probably carcinogenic, and infinitely miscible with water. Extracts right out of the fuel (completely, I might add!) and travels freely in the ground water. Stupid choice, thanks you bureaucrats!

PEH:

Obviously you need to upgrade all your software and buy a new computer. Make Billy happy!

Seriously, what version of your web browser are you using? MSNBC will probably crash any Netscape version older than 6.2, and IE 4.0 or older, too.

Peter

Piotr · #9 09-04-2002, 10:30 PM

psfred-any environmental consulting experience ( I'm a hydrogeologist with 15 years under my belt)?? great summary of the mtbe. By the way- this article may mean that somebody is pushing either some stupid useless additive, or there will be a new diesel tax, or we will have to go through the emission check. It's all about $$$$. trust me, I know.

psfred · #10 09-04-2002, 11:04 PM

Piotr:

I've spent six of the last eight years as an organic analysis chemist in an enviromental lab. I have learned more about filthy dirt than I ever wanted to know!

There are plant/animal oil based additives that would do several things for diesel fuel -- clean it up tremendously (no smoke -- at all!), make us far more independent of OPEC and MORE dependent upon our farmers (of course, ADM will get all the money), and make our diesels run nice and clean inside.

All available and in current use in Europe, but what with the oil lobby (aka the Vice President, etc) and the enviro nuts who only react to what they see someone else doing, we are stuck.

In case you didn't know, electric is NOT the answer, nor is hydrogen -- electric comes from burning coal and nuclear (another industry where theory rapidly gets beaten by the engineering problems) and hydrogen is currently made from natural gas....... so much for clean, renewable resources.

The older I get the less I try to tell people -- waste of breath.

Peter

dabenz · #11 09-05-2002, 02:00 PM

daBenz predicts rapid changes once the ultra-low sulfur diesel gets to North America. Old school thoughts remain only in the railroads and on the farm, with both groups having tremendous lobbying power. For the most part the trucking industry has accepted and adapted, but not willingly in my experience. I didn't wake up to the advantages of ultra low sulfur until a year and a half ago. Now I can't wait.

From a regulatory point of view it's a lot easier to monitor 500 power plants than it is 400 million vehicles, so electric vehicles make sense if the goal is to reduce pollution. Whoever figures out how to make a light weight high power density rechargeable battery is going to be the next Bill Gates. My personal concern is how to stay warm in an electric vehicle in a Yankee winter. In the mean time diesel is the way to go.