California vs Federal?? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rwthomas1 · #1 12-08-2002, 10:40 PM

Okay, what gives? I keep seeing references to parts, cars, etc. that California diesels are somewhat different from the rest of the country's?? What exactly is the difference say between an 84'300D from Cali and any other? Thanks, RT

GregS · #2 12-08-2002, 11:07 PM

One thing is for sure, the california models get worse gas milege than Federal versions. I don't know exactly why this is, but its true. I think it MAY have something to do with gearing since my car runs around 3500rpm+ ove 70, which is higher than most people pull at that speed.

Additionally, the '84 cali version has what is called an "air recirculation valve" on the intake manifold. No one seems to know exactly what purpose these serve, but it obviously has something to do with emissions. I think all 617 engines have this valve for '85. On mine it made a very annoying wistling noise, and I disconnected it with no ill affect. Additionally, for '85 california models had a large canister air filter that was installed in the front corner next to the radiator. I think the was because MB needed room for the trap oxidizer, but I'm not exactly sure if '85 cali-version 617 engines had a trap oxidizer. I know for sure that '85 Federal versions do not have a trap oxidizer and have the air filter on top like all other 617 engines.

Also, some '84 and '85 cars had a different PCV set up. They had a tube that ran down to the "U" shaped plastic tube that runs from the air filter to the turbo and a tube connected to that line that runs to the bottom side of the air filter. I don't know the reason for this setup.

The '84 and '85 Cali versions also have more vacuum plumbing to operate the air recirculation and EGR valves. The '85s have different vaccum plumbing than the '84s. This system is operated by an electronic control module that is installed in the passenger side kick-panel. This module also operates the tachometer (which is probably why my car doesn't have the typical tachometer failure other w123 owners experience).

Lastly, these cars do not have the vaccum operated transmission modulator on top of the valve cover. My car has no modulator, electric switches, nothing - just the bowden cable and a vaccum line that runs from the back of the injector pump.

Thats all I can tell you from my personal experience. I'm no expert, so if anyone else has info, please chime in.

Greg
'84 300D, 170k

lrg · #3 12-08-2002, 11:33 PM

'83 and earlier W123 cars are pretty much identical. In '84 the CA cars had a bit more plumbing as described above but were still pretty much the same. '85 is when the big changes took effect and the CA cars added a Trap Oxydizer (now all should have been replaced by the Trap Catalyst which lasts forever) and special air filter, starter, heat shield and plumbing to accomodate it. I believe all cars had a somewhat lower gear ratio in '85 so had better acceleration but worse mileage. Many of the emission items on the '85 CA cars later appeared on the W124 diesel. In '86 there were no diesels sold in CA (I think that was true for all the US for that matter) and in '87 the W124 cars were 50 state cars, all of which had traps. After '87 there were no MBZ diesels sold in CA. In fact there are very few late diesels here now. Not because you can't bring them in from out of state (you can) but more likely because even the dealers here have never seen them so it's hard to get decent maintenance done.

The Warden · #4 12-09-2002, 03:09 AM

Actually, reading this brings up a question. A guy I know on a site I go to that's similar to this but for Fords has listed on his sig that he has an '86 300TD. He lives in BC, so I would assume that the car was originally sold in Canada. Would that be a 123 (maybe a late '85 that somoene called an '86) or a 124?

#5 12-09-2002, 03:32 AM

They made a few W123's in 1986, I forgot the exact date. Offically I think these cars are still 1985s. I know in some places that the cars are registered based on the year they are sold, not based on the production or calender years. So a 1982 model year might be registered as a 1982 in one place and a 1983 or 1984 in another place.

GregS · #6 12-09-2002, 12:32 PM

As far as rear-end ratios go, the '85s had lower gears, 2.87 vs. 3.07 on other turbodiesels, which would make them potentially slower, but have lower rpm at cruising speed. It probably also helped mpg a little.

Additionally, I have noticed that the wastegate and related plumbing is different than on other turbodiesels I have seen. Someone told me some diesels havw KKK turbochargers and others had Garret. Don't know what cars had which turbos, or whether this has something to do with my car being a california version, but I do know my turbo looks different.

Greg

dsmess · #7 12-09-2002, 03:04 PM

My 'Calif' 300D was built in 10/84 and has the large cannister air filter next to the radiator (The filter costs $30, ouch!) The older plastic EGR cutout switches are replaced with a single electrical micro-switch that turns on at full throttle....not sure about the gear ratio.

gsxr · #8 12-09-2002, 05:27 PM

The ARV's function is to reduce boost pressure in the intake manifold to assist EGR operation, and also improve trap oxidizer performance for cars so equipped. 1984 CA cars and all 1985-up have both EGR and ARV.

Two diesels were sold by MB in 1986, the 300SDL and the 190D 2.5, but no E-class. In 1988/89, only the 190D was available, no E- or S-class. There were E and S class diesels from 1990-95 with the exception of an E-class in 1994 (or something like that), but no C-class ("190") diesels. I'm pretty sure most were available in CA but I'm not positive about that. I thought the reason there were no E/S class in 88/89 was due to CA, and they imported them only after being able to sell in CA once again (since most of the sales were in CA).

MB used both KKK and Garrett turbos on all cars, all years, depening on what was available when they were built. The KKK costs more and is pretty rare. They are nice because you can adjust the wastegate externally - no so on the Garrett. (Ok, at least not EASILY on the Garrett.)The Garrett has a rubber hose from the intake manifold to the wastegate, the KKK has a metal pipe. I'd post a link to photos but my website is dead right now (hosting server died, being recovered hopefully.) Turbos with the ARV will look different - larger due to the ARV casting, and it will have a vacuum nipple for the ARV hose. 123 turbos with the ARV require a different air cleaner housing than those without the ARV, and the 1985 CA model is totally different as LRG noted.

HTH,

Most all 123 turbos SHOULD have the same rear end ratio except the 1985, which also has a different tranny, torque converter, tranny vacuum signal system, and bunch of other things. The 1984 model, CA or Federal, should have the same rear end as the other 82-84 models. I suspect somehow Greg's axle was swapped with something lower, perhaps for more "off the line" power. Either that or the tach is way off.

vwbuge · #9 12-10-2002, 03:07 AM

I beg to differ about the starter on the CA cars. I replaced mine with no trouble. I used a "regular" starter.

lrg · #10 12-10-2002, 02:05 PM

I've never had to replace the starter on my 123 but I know that MBZ lists a different starter for the '85 California model. I'm not sure what the difference is (besides being about $100 more expensive) except that it's located very close to the Trap so it may have extra heat shielding. Maybe it doesn't matter anymore since all the traps are now converted to catalysts but I can imagine it gets pretty hot near the canister and the prolonged extra heat won't help the starter longevity much. If you are using the 49 state starter you may want to remove the catalyst canister altogether just to be safe.

adamb · #11 12-11-2002, 05:15 AM

Hello,
The starter on Cali models with the trap has the solenoid on the bottom of the starter, where the other models have the solenoid on the top. there is otherwise little difference, they weigh the same, look the same vice the oposite mounting of the solenoid, and even the solenoids are interchangeable. I am certain of thisbecause on my 1985 Cali model 300d recently replaced the solenoid on the starter. Although there was nothing wrong with the starting performance, I wanted to clean up the contacts on the positive terminal to the solenoid and unfortunately cracked the plastic housing the terminal connects to (it was pretty corroded).
I was able to get the starter out in about 10 minutes with my 3 foot 3/8 extension. This extension has made so many impossible jobs possible. I like the S/K extensions with the socket retainer in the end so the sockets don't fall off.
Have fun,
Adam Bush