turbodiesel,

You have a good memory. The engine came apart because the rear seal wasn't touching the crankshaft anywhere. It was gushing oil. It took about a gallon to get back home from about 400 miles away. It was very strange because it started leaking all of a sudden.

Once the engine was apart, it was of course in need of overhaul, but probably could have had rings, a valve job and gone down the road some more. The only other absolute problem other than normal wear was a piston with a failing ring land. It would probably have let go not much later had the main seal not caused the engine to come out and apart.

Happy New Year,

Larry - is it true you used to race dirst bikes? I think I remember reading that on some of your other threads. I raced in NY back in the early to mid 1980s and swore at the time I wanted to be pro, but of course wasn't good enough.

I got this from another website, confirms Larrys explanation and partly mine.



We use the word "stretch" but chains don't really stretch any more than they break.
What happens is that a chain rapidly gets longer when it's first put into service because each pin re-seats itself. Then, as the pins and bushings wear due to load and friction, the chain will slowly continue to lengthen. Because a chain that no longer has the correct "pitch" (distance between links) causes premature gear wear, improper valve and injection timing, using a worn chain is "penny wise and pound foolish."


Have a great weekend,
Adam Bush

Maybe we should change the description to " elongation".... would that help you guys stop worrying about the definition of it getting longer and get us back to whether the chain is likely to go around its appointed rounds for MULTI BILLIONS of times with NO APPRECIABLE WEAR or if maybe something else is affecting the impression.... like improper measureing of the old engine ... ?

Greg,

I resisted digging the manual out and reading the procedure just because it was busy here, what with Santa visiting and a daughter with a 1982 240D needing a blower motor repair, new lights in the dash and the heater control knobs, and the instrument panel rheostat removed and shorted out. But I can see you need a little support here.

Per the manual, to get a real reading you check valve timing or chain "elongation" (glad we got that right), by setting the number one cylinder intake valve cam in the vertical position, shimming the gap closed, all of which typically takes place after setting the clearances. Then you attach a dial indicator to the head in appropriate locations noted in the manual, so you can put the tip of the indicator on the spring retainer of the number one intake valve. Zero the indicator at a 3mm preload, and then rotate the engine in the normal direction with a tool connected to the front of the crankshaft until the dial indicator shows the valve has openned 2 mm. IN this position read the value at the balancing disc.

The manual does recognize the alignment mark method, which is used for engine assembly with new parts, but suggests any check for performance related questions should be per the above instructions.

I am always amazed at the fact that in next paragraph the manual says to correct the chain "elongation" effects by inserting an offset woodruff key and this method is never used . Or even mentioned when people talk about addressing a fix for chain "elongation." It seems the discussion of changing pitch of the chain links noted above would say the MB engineers and mechanics that use offset woodruff keys are in the dark about this subject. I think in reality the sprockets wear as fast or faster than the links, as they see more engagements and disengagements per hour of operation than each link of the chain does. The chain spreads the wear over the whole length, while the sprocket hits the same places on each tooth over and over. A new chain does not address this issue either.

AS usual there is no single response. I hope this helps. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Jim, Thanks, I was beginning to feel like a " voice in the wilderness " with some getting stuck on why it got longer,,,, and not being able to taunt LarryB into putting up figures he was comfortable with... which I thought might have given him pause to reflect on the fact that he did not claim to have used the same method which you and I described... and which he endorsed above... when he 'checked' his chain "elongation"...
I have held my ground in this because I don't want people new to automobile engines to think they should not regularly , properly check stuff which the engineers say to check,,,,and to suggest that sometimes other factors account for 'unusual' instances of mechanical conditions...
Sorry to interrupt your dash game...saw you post but did not have any answers...
On your blower longevity... why do you not feel good about the fix's future ? Do you know if he undercut the Mica ? That is the only thing which might shorten up a fix like that.. and not permanently ruin it... just require a cleaning cut again...., Greg

Greg,

The commutator bars are not able to be fully cleaned up. They were being operated with bad brushes long enough to eat quite a taper and lots of fairly deep grooves. The clean up went as far as it could, and we elected to leave the taper so there is some part of the brush contacting a part of the commutator with some meat. I will only replace the unit if the car is worth keeping, and at the moment it is not looking like it has a long life left. Too much rust showing here and there. And groaning from the front end....Thanks for the input. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Jim, your car has LYME DESEASE A statement like yours always puts a lot of people in a quandry here.... is that 240 a manual shift ?
No one wants to look like they are rooting for the demise of a loved and trusted car... it really feels like a vulture sitting in a tree.. but if you know the end is coming... Can I get in line for the transmission ?
I am actually kidding ( at this time ) because I have more projects than I can handle... but thought I would be the first to be funny about the situation....

Greg,

Yes the car is a manual transmission model, and it seems you would have to wrest the keys from my daughter's "cold dead hands" before she would give them up alive. She identifies strongly with car, as it was built the same year she was born, and, to your point above, she has had Lyme Disease before too.

But when it goes, and she is determined to get it past the 500,000 km mark to get a badge, I would be glad to send the good parts, including the engine to a good home. I drove behind her climbing a long, steep hill on the Mass Pike yesterday, at night, and there is no smoke of any kind coming out the tailpipe. I thought I should see atleast some black Diesel smoke, but nothing visible, just a little faint Diesel smell. And it will accelerate, slowly, up the hills to reach 65. Once at 65 mph it will pretty much hold that speed up anything all the way to Albany, NY. The clutch only has about a hundred thousand miles on it (replaced the original when the ring gear teeth got worn out as once you get in there that far, you might as well replace wearing parts that have to be removed and are approaching 200,000 miles). So, its just too bad Mother Nature seems to be coveting the body as there is no economical way to fight that once it gets started. Good Luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

I am sorry to hear that she has had Lyme desease... that is very serious....
It is nice to hear that you have a 'motivated' worker... if I can tell you how to double the life of the parts of the car which you have pretty much written off how much in terms of equipment/supplies would you consider worth the effort ? This does not include labor... I am counting on your daughter providing that....

Greg,

She was cured of the Lyme Disease episode before it got serious, well, she thought being feverish and throwing up for a week was pretty serious (I was "forcing" her to drink Gatorade to make up for all the fluids she was losing, and to this day she will not drink that stuff anymore as she says she tasted every drop twice....). But once the problem was diagnosed and she got a dose of medicine she got better in a few weeks and has had no repeat bouts since (maybe ten years ago now).

Let me see if I can figure out what you were saying before I respond to the offer. And if it involves my daughter doing much physical labor on the car we could be in for a serious negotiation when it is cold out. But if there is a way to keep the rust at bay for a few more years, we are definitely interested. It would make fixing some of the minor creaks and groans, and the occasional rear end clunk (sway bar brackets I think) worth the effort and investment in some parts. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

OK, I will let you mull it over,,, and you can start softening up your daughter's resistance to cold weather labor.....what time does it warm up up there in the arctic circle ?

Greg,

Warming up is a relative term. If it is not raining and the temperatures are above freezing, I think it is ok to work on a car that needs help. She will define the criteria by some internal, mysterious program that never seems to be bothered by inconsistency, if you get the meaning. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Jim, I have a 13 year old Niece

Greg,

My daughter is all for the offer, but she is a little suspicious about the cure. She thinks maybe it will accelerate the rusting problems so you get the good parts sooner. I don't know where she got that idea, unless she is reading some of your other posts when I am not around.

If the equipment and or supplies needed are within the range of normal maintenance costs for this car (I routinely get a bill for parts for a few hundred dollars every year it seems, things like water pumps, brake parts, etc. seem to be taking turns requesting retirement, or in some cases demanding retirement). Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

yes, I am thinking in the couple of hundred dollar range tops... but careful systematic labor... not fun... but for a great car I think worth it..
How about doing an inventory on what needs to be done and current access routes.... size of those routes..... Tell her not to worry....