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#1
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'85 300 Turbo - Injector timer location at TDC
Anyone know hoe to set the timer when the motor is at TDC? I've got a friend that when puttin a chain into a newly rebuilt motor thinks he slipped a couple of links.
The manuals all talk about marking things before disassembly and that's what you use to get it back in correctly but he never marked anything before sending the motor out for services. Are there marks that line it up or a sight guage based on the key way location or something that can be used to set it up initially? They had to do something at the factory...
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'99 S420 - Mommies '72 280SE 4.5 - looking to breathe life into it '84 300SD Grey - Sold '85 300SD Silver - Sold '78 Ski Nautique |
#2
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know hoe here
I'm not exactly sure I understand when you refer to "timer". If you are referring to the fuel injection pump timing then it is pretty easy to set. Haynes book provides the specs. With the IP removed and the engine at the proper spec line up the "wider" spline on the drive coupling for the pump and that is where you initially set the pump timing.
Will it run? What makes you think it is off?
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Jim |
#3
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Sorry about that...
What he is trying to set is the "timer" that the IP mounts into! This is a chain driven device accessable via the front of the motor and in al the manuals including the CD they make reference to "make sure you align a new timer with the old one and mark with paint" before removing the old timer. Well he didn't! So he is now trying to get the engine back together and con't confirm that his pump timing is going to be correct. On the other hand maybe it doesn't make a bi of difference since setting the pump marks to alignment at TDC is the key to timing the pump but they make it sound like this timer needs to be set exactly or else.
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'99 S420 - Mommies '72 280SE 4.5 - looking to breathe life into it '84 300SD Grey - Sold '85 300SD Silver - Sold '78 Ski Nautique |
#4
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It is no big deal to set the injection pump after it has been removed. Put the engine at before top dead center 24 degrees I THINK. You will need to look up the right number. Line the spline on the injection pump like what is shown in the pic and slide it in and mount it. Make sure the engine is at the spec for #1 cyl - watch the cam lobes.
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Jim |
#5
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If the IP is off the car, the position of the IP isn't important, the IP will fit into the splines at any rotational position.
If the IP is still in place, you will need to check the injection timing to see, if the timers weren't marked there is no way to check relative position between them (and even if they were, if the engine was rotated the marks won't match up exactly anyway -- the chain isn't a perfect superset of the number of teeth on the timer....) Jim has the data correct -- if the IP is off, just set it correctly (there are a few factory pumps that must be set exactly 180 degrees off, so be aware that the mark may have to be exactly 180 degrees out!), and install, then check injection timing. There are a number of threads on IP timing, so I won't repeat instructions here. Should be 24 or 26 degrees BTDC -- there is no spec for TDC. Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles 1988 300E 200,012 1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles 1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000 1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs! |
#6
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Thanks Peter. Got the IP timing thing down it was just a question of the ip timer itself as he tore the motor down and then put it back together but did not mark anything in relative position to TDC for getting the timer aligned correctly when reassembling.
I'd love to think that the timing teeth and the chain would run in some kind of relative pattern that would make it irrelevant as to the ip timer location when putting in a new chain after a complete tear down but is sounds like they are not. Would you be able to retime the pump though anyway even if the IP timer has moved in relation to the crack and camshaft? I would think you just have to setup the pump for start of delivery and be done with it..... Obviously I am thinking while typing here. Can you confirm this or is my thinking flawed on this matter?
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'99 S420 - Mommies '72 280SE 4.5 - looking to breathe life into it '84 300SD Grey - Sold '85 300SD Silver - Sold '78 Ski Nautique |
#7
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The injection pump "Timer(advancer)" does NOT have to be in any special relation to the crank or cam timing marks. I would hope that he double checks to make sure that the crank and cam are in time .
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My Truck.. 2007 DODGE, 5.9 Cummins, 6spd stick, 4X4. My car..1977 240D, OTHER WHEELS...1955 VW Oval window bug, European Delivery (Holland) with a 1700cc, 2 barrel, Porsche drum brakes. 1939 WILLYS Pick-up. 1967 Triumph 200cc Tiger Cub. 1976 Honda 550F 4cyl Motor Cycle. |
#8
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That's how I got called into this poject is that he couldn't get it to firer after reinstall but it appears that he let the cam and crank get out of time cause the cam tower at #4 looks bent.
I think he lost his sync when he rolled in the new chain and he didn't think these were zero clearance engines either... Oh well, hopefully we'll get it wired here. Thanks Guys.
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'99 S420 - Mommies '72 280SE 4.5 - looking to breathe life into it '84 300SD Grey - Sold '85 300SD Silver - Sold '78 Ski Nautique |
#9
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1- The timer has no setting, it is irrelevant - only must match IP, crank, and camshaft
2- Yes these are interference engines and he may have made a very expen$ive boo-boo there! That engine has the RIV plug on the side of the IP, so he can set the pump timing using the special MB tool which costs ~$30. Using this method the proper setting is 15 degrees ATDC. The cam marks should line up with the pointer at TDC. The timing device itself is irrelevant. Setting the pump timing with wet methods (drip/bubble) the target is 24 BTDC. If it's way off you'll need to pull the IP and re-insert it. With the lock tool, you can turn the crank to 15 ATDC, have the pump locked in place, insert pump into block, and you're done (other than turning over & few times and double-checking everything). You should NEVER NEVER attempt to start the engine after messing with pump or cam timing without first turning it over MANY times by hand, and verifying the cam & IP timing are all good BEFORE turning the key! Also, it will take a LONG time to prime the injector lines after the pump has been removed. Like 30-90 seconds of cranking (total - wait a minute in between 10-15 second bursts to let the starter cool). Keep the pedal floored until the engine has caught AND is firing on several cylinders before releasing the key and/or pedal. HTH. |
#10
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Thank you Sir...
Yeah, I figured his pump timing is going to be way out of wack since he had no clue about the IP timer. It now makes sense that the timer in and of itself is irrelevant to pump timing unless the timer is the "only" part being replaced in which case I guess you could mark the okld and new and then pull the old one and slip ion the new one.
I had not thoroughly thought through the processes and now see that clearly there is no problem with just installing everything with the cam and crank timed together and then reinsert the pump from scratch. Makes total sense now... duh! That tool sounds like a great invention but since he should only have to do the driop test once now and then maybe one more time at fifteen thousand or so the drip method should work fine. I'm gonna head over and give him a hand tomorrow on resetting the head. He is lucky in that he had another complete head so all he needs do is swap out the parts. Thank you all for the input!!!!!!!!!!
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'99 S420 - Mommies '72 280SE 4.5 - looking to breathe life into it '84 300SD Grey - Sold '85 300SD Silver - Sold '78 Ski Nautique |
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