Larry

You try to make it sound like I'm the one who has possibly bribed someone or bought something illegal. I order Duracool in 100 case quanities and the freight companies deliver it to my door within two days. Usually I order 300 cases or more at a time to save on freight. I have ordered as much as 2000 cases at a time, but that is too much to keep up with at a time. Quite often I deliver as much as 100 cases at a time out of my van and my children sometimes ride with me. If I thought there was any serious danger I would never let my children ride with me. I have never had a problem with sleeping. I do the best job I can with what I have to work with. Duracool is warehoused in Kansas and they probably keep over 100 pallets in stock at all times. I advertise in several major magazines and I don't believe my advertising is misleading in any way. You've tried to make me look like I'm some shady character that operates in the dark out of the trunk of his car. Well I'm not and I have tried to buck the system honorably. If anyone can tell me how to do it better I am willing to listen.

Larry

One more thing, I don't know of any state that has named Duracool in their regulations or law.

"problem is most people cannot afford R-12 or it is not available to them anymore"---Redfox

It is available to anyone that takes the online open book test and pays about $20.

The average car takes 3 cans (12oz) or less at $20 a can right now. So $60 to have the referigerant the old car system was designed to work with.

Around here last year it was $40.00 a can and now none of the parts houses have it in stock to my knowledge. Not even Autozone has it.

Found this link on the ackits.com site. Interesting reading.
Funny thing concerning purchasing mineral oil for r12 systems. At one of the local chain parts houses the guy told me that mineral oil fro r12 systems is "hard to find". The a/c supply house sells it all day and it is "on the shelf".

http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html#q2

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Jim

looks like these folks sell an r-12 kit for $63.00


http://www.refrigerantsales.com/st_r12.html

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1984 300D Turbo - 231k....totalled 11/30/07 RIP

"Around here last year it was $40.00 a can and now none of the parts houses have it in stock to my knowledge. Not even Autozone has it."--Redfox

That is SO typical of your answers...

1. We were not limiting the conversation to " around there"... IF that is even true that it cost that much then. Who would be foolish enough to pay twice what it was available for nationally ?

2. The internet and Ebay were in full force by last year. I paid $18 a can for seven cans delivered to my door in the middle of summer last year.

3. No one said you could walk into the local parts house and buy R12.

I'm glad you can buy it. My whole purpose throughout this thread is to discourage people from changing to 134a because it is available and cheap. leathermang from the beginning you have tried to tell, not prove that R-12 is better than Duracool. From my understanding you have never used Duracool. I have used both and my opinion is that duracool works better. You are entitled to your opinion, but without a comparison from you your opinion does not carry much weight with me. If people want to buy R-12 be my guest.

Guys,

I get the impression if you were in a bar this conversation would degenerate quickly into a physical confrontation. I think Larry (and apparently gsxr) did the right thing - realizing there is little to be gained and possibly something to be lost, he checked out of this thread. It might be time for all of us to do so as I am sure no one is going to change anyone else's mind reading this thread on the merits of one refrigerant over another. At the moment the direction of the thread has little value to anyone except those engaged in the virtual bar room brawl. Flaming, goading and fragging are not what the drew most of us to frequent this site. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

"My whole purpose throughout this thread is to discourage people from changing to 134a because it is available and cheap. "--Redfox

I thought your argument for them buying Duracool was that it was available and cheap.... ?

The thread subject was Alternatives to R12. But we are saying that at this point in time it does not make economic sense to change from R12... particularly when these older foreign cars are not as well equiped to give cold air with less efficient refrigerant than they were designed for.


." I have used both and my opinion is that duracool works better."--Redfox

YOU SELL DURACOOL, IT IS EXPLOSIVE AT CERTAIN MIXES WITH AIR WHEN AN IGNITION SOURCE IS AVAILABLE. YOU CAN NOT BE EXPECTED TO BE UNBIASED IN YOUR OPINION.

I HAVE NOTHING TO SELL WITH REGARDS TO DURACOOL, 134A OR R12.... ONLY MY REPUTATION IS AT STAKE.. AND I STAND BY WHAT I HAVE RECOMMENDED.

I have tried DuraCool in my black 300D and in this part of the country it is not, in my experience, the answer to replace R12 with. This is from my experience.

I have been asked about closing this thread and/or deleting it. Personally, I don't want to do it because hopefully this thread will allow people to see different sides/viewpoints to this issue.

If you go to a site like www.ackits.com they have very similar threads and even in those it boils down to if the vehicle was originally r12 then you need to try to keep it running with r12. If it was designed to run on r134 then you pretty much need to stick with 134.

__________________
Jim

Two weeks ago I walked into Discount Auto Parts with my 609 certification card and bought four cans for 18.88 each. They practially begged me to buy a 30 pound cylinder that they can't unload.


If you press the search button at the bottom of any of redfox's posts, you will see the places he has contributed to this board. This thread is the only one he has posted on. He is part of a commercial enterprise and is here for no other purpose than to promote his product. I believe that violates the spirit, if not the letter, of Mercedesshop.com's rules.

__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References

I pressed it, I also read his profile. Been a member for 6 months and has a MB (300TD) and says he likes old cars and has been involved with them for 30 yrs. I then looked closer to the search results..... This thread was THREE pages long before he ever replied.

It seems to me also that he replied in DEFENSE of a product not in promotion of it. IMHO he believes in his product which is why it is the one he sells. If he didn't he would be selling something else. Yes, there are A-holes that will sell anything..... I don’t think this the case here.

So there for you have no right to say he is here only to "promote" his product. He stepped in defend it when the subject he is passionate about came up.. That’s no different than a guy who watches ths BB cause he loves 190D's but may not say a word till someone decided to speak bad of his favorite car.

Also what makes no sense to me is...... most everyone you speak to with good honest business sense say "iffffff your going to go into business.... makes sure it is something you like a lot... maybe even something your passionate about". I think most people here would agree with that.

Well..... looks like Red did just that to me..... butttttt...... out of some of the same mouths that I bet just agreed with the statements above about being in business with something you believe in, you are also saying...... "ohhhhhh ur a "salesman of the product" "Ohhhh.. Surely you cant be passionate about what you sale" "it's all about money"...

Get off your double standards. He believes in his product and he is defending it..... he is not the one here in Offense/Promotion.

Simple ......... he believes in Duracool.. FINE and he has his reasons, therfore he reccomends it AND sells it
.................... Others believe in R-12.... FINE and they have their reasons, there for you reccomened it
.....................Others believe in sweating FINE, We reccomend you use deodorant :p we don’t care about your reasons

TOPIC DONE?

__________________
"Know other lessons I need to learn? TELL me. Tired of learning'em the hard way".

Glow Plug Wait: [i} Time of silence in homage Rudolph Diesel. Longer you own a diesel. more honor you give". [/i]

Life; SNAFU Situation Normal All Fouled Up, & FUBAR: Fouled Up Beyond All Repair

-Now: Snafued Jeep TJ w/OM617 2Be daily driver & building SS M1079 w/Ambo boxed /live in Adv. Truck, Diesel KLR conversion
-Sold 62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD

please also remember the original subject was/is "r-12 alternatives" ---that is "alternative" plural...

thanks.

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1984 300D Turbo - 231k....totalled 11/30/07 RIP

well, I'm semi-checked out. I do agree with Rick's recent post about commercial enterprise though. I posted this before, but I'm sure it has been lost in the brawl, so I'll say it again:


Duracool is a good replacement for R-134a. There is little dispute about that. Good stuff, good price. There are issues with it being a blend but I'll ignore that for now, along with Larry's concerns on proper fittings, recovery, etc. Let's focus on performance shall we? And that's the kicker. Duracool WILL NOT perform better than R-12, period. The company that MAKES the stuff doesn't even claim that - only redfox does, with lots of anecdotal "evidence" in the form of "I have many customers that say it works better than R-12", or tales to that effect. Can't change the laws of physics, guys.

Simple facts: Duracool is an economical upgrade to an existing system with R-134a already in it. Duracool is a performance downgrade to a system currently charged with R-12. Note that your local climate - ambient temps & humidity - play a big part in how the various refrigerants perform (as noted ad nauseum earlier in the thread). Please keep that in mind when choosing a refrigerant!!!



Best regards,

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