delvac 1 full synth Used Oil Analysis in 1983 300D-turbo - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JHZR2 · #1 05-20-2003, 03:04 PM

Hi,

Here is an analysis of Mobil Delvac 1 (from the local Caterpilliar dealer). Second oil change with the D1 full synthetic. 200700 miles on the car, oil changed at 3638 mi on the oil, Mann filter used. Analysis done by Wear-check USA, the analyzer flagged it for abnormal Viscosity (KV@100C=14.77), although the delvac 1 spec sheet says that viscosity at 100C should be around 15 cSt, so I think that they must have thought it was an xw-30 oil or something (they also had it listed as a gasoline vehicle). All in all I think it was a pretty good UOA.
Here are the results:

Sample Date 5/14/2003
Unit Age 200700m
Time on Fluid 3638m
Time on Filter 3638m
Fluid Maint. Changed
Filter Maint. Changed
Fluid Delvac 1 full synthetic (CAT) 5w-40
Iron (Fe) 22
Chromium (Cr) 0.7
Nickel (Ni) 1.4
Titanium (Ti) 0.1
Silver (Ag) 0.0
Aluminum (Al) 2.4
Lead (Pb) 4.3
Copper (Cu) 0.6
Tin (Sn) 0.0
Silicon (Si) 5.6
Sodium (Na) 2.3
Potassium (K) 2.2
Boron (B) 111
Barium (Ba) 0.0
Molybdenum (Mo) 11
Magnesium (Mg) 427
Calcium (Ca) 2096
Phosphorus (P) 1098
Zinc (Zn) 1176
Sulfur (S) 4192
Cadmium (Cd) 0.0
Manganese (Mn) 0.3
Vanadium (V) 0.0
Soot(%) 0.9
Oxidation(PA) 75
Nitratrion(PA) 45
Sulfation(PA) 13
ZDDP 0.00
Kv@100°C 14.77
White Metal NONE
Babbitt NONE
Precipitate NONE
Silt NONE
Debris NONE
Dirt NONE
Appearance NORML
Odor NORML
H2O(Emul) NEG
H2O(Free)

Antony · #2 05-21-2003, 07:56 AM

How did you collect and ship the sample? If it's not too intrusive could you also post the cost of this service? The results seem very comprehensive and thanks for the information.
Regards,

#3 05-21-2003, 08:52 AM

Oil analysis is as much about the condition of the engine as it is about the quality of the oil. Good results indicate both to be good.

Have a great day,

JHZR2 · #4 05-21-2003, 10:06 AM

What I do to collect is simply drive the car for a while, to get it up to temperature. Somewhere in the instructions they suggest 500 miles to get everything mixed up, but these kits are usually designed for the trucking industry. Once the engine / oil is hot, I go right ahead and drain the oil for a change. I let it flow for a couple of seconds, and then stick the collection bottle right into the stream of oil flowing out into the collection pan (Cleanliness is key). I fill the whole bottle which is maybe a few ounces, ten let the rest drain out and perform an oil change as usual.

I use wearcheck USA ( http://www.wearcheckusa.com/ ), which seems to have the best prices around ($12 for the simple kit, $16 for extra testing). I use the simple kit, which just looks at wear numbers, not toal base or total acid number (useful if youre extending drains). I figure I can see the ppm of aditives, and can see the wear metals. this is good enough, because diesel rated oils have a very robust additive package, and surely can go for much longer than my intervals. If not, Id think the additive amounts would be off. The key is to not change brands too often, because additive clash will reduce the TBN much faster than any acid/soot fighting done by the oil will.

My analysis was good, and a member on the mbz.org list said that with soot at 0.9, the oil was totally fine and I could have left it in longer. Right now I have dino delvac in there, but I am thinking of using synthetic delvac (I have a feeling my MPGs were better with it than the current 15w-40 delvac 1300s dino oil) permanently, because if I do two drains of dino oil per one of delvac, Im looking at about $40 for dino and filter vs. about $47 for the synthetic and filter, but it saves me time rolling around under my car (which Ill do anyhow), black sooty oil all in my skin and on my fingernails, and probably 1-2 MPG better, from what Im seeing.
Hope this helps,

JMH

md21722 · #5 05-21-2003, 12:30 PM

3% soot is the practical limit. I would never change syn Delvac after 3600 miles unless there was something wrong with my engine. Normally 7500 is safe is you do a fair amount of highway driving. I've gone 9500 and everything is still fine. After 94000 miles of syn fluids averaging 7000 between drains my timing chain had zero degrees of stretch.

HTH,

JHZR2 · #6 05-21-2003, 12:33 PM

Agreed,

I just made the switch, and then wanted to get a baseline oil analysis, so I switched early, as I was eager for results. Overall, I guess 22ppm of iron isnt that great at 3600 miles, but Im sure Id have the same using a dino oil, unless the higher cold viscosity protects a little better given the tolerances in the engine.

I think Im going to go back to synthetic, although I might do an analysis on dino oil to see how it stacks up...

JMH

Antony · #7 05-21-2003, 12:39 PM

Thanks for the prompt reply, the link, and the valuable information. Ill give it two tries (one for each beast).

Best Regards,

md21722 · #8 05-21-2003, 12:42 PM

Oil analysis is all about trend analysis. Sampling once is not all that accurate to compare oil performance. If this was your first synthetic usage, it may be cleaning out deposits and giving higher than normal readings.

Tasma · #9 05-21-2003, 06:40 PM

This report shows molybdenum in the oil. Delvac 1 doesn't have molybdenum. There must be left over dirt inside the engine that is still being cleaned out. The only other thing that looks wrong is the amount of silicon for this short of run. Make sure you have good filter properly seated.

I have run sythetics in my 240 for 10,000 mile and only showed 33 ppm iron. The silicon was only 2ppm

JHZR2 · #10 05-23-2003, 09:50 PM

I wondered about the moly in there as well. This is the second fill of delvac that I have used. My thoughts are as follows:
-I understand that cat does add a few tracers to the delvac 1 so it is distinguishable. The trend nowadays is to using moly as a potent wear preventer, so maybe they add it for good and distinguisihing characteristics.
-I did have to top up (mistakingly) with some delvac 1300 super. It actually caused me to overfill slightly, so it wasnt needed, but for a few checks on different level surfaces it read low. Dont know why... Anyhow, I added (definitely less than a qt) of the 1300, which does have moly. Otherwise it must be left from long ago when I had pennzoil longlife, which does have a good shot of moly in it.

I wasnt too happy about the iron which is relatively high for this drain interval. I can only guess that either iron laden sludge was being cleaned, or it is because my engine has a turbo and extra cylinder, both of which are oiled and do indeed wear as well. Of course this wouldnt account for that much extra Fe...
My air filter was dirty and the turbo hose wasnt as tight as Id like, thus the high Si.

Could you post your analysis results as a baseline, since apparently youve been analyzing for a while? I think it would be of great help to me, as well as any others who might be interested in doing UOA.

Thanks

JMH

Tasma · #11 05-25-2003, 09:19 AM

My car is equipped with a spinner II filter so my results would not be valid for others.
The only thing that I have found that is very interesting is that with a good filter the soot can get as high as 6% without any increase in wear rates. I have also found that group 3 oils seem to work as well as the more expensive group 4 oils.
The group 4 type oils will last longer but you are limited by the soot the engine produces so you are not able to take advantage of the longer life of these oils.

For the shorter oil change intervals and warmer climates (3000-5000 miles) Delvac S ,Delo, and Pennzoil Long Life seem to work just as well. I am basing this on oil analysis and from the wear metals that I remove from the Spinner filter.

JHZR2 · #12 05-25-2003, 12:44 PM

Agreed, Group III oils should disperse as well, and therefore perform about as well. The problem with them is they are usually priced as high as the group IV (Rotella synth which is a group III used to be 12.88 at wal mart, now its at 18.88+, which for the $3 difference for delvac, Id rather take the superior delvac 1.

Have you really run up to 6% on oil from your sump that circulates and not had any thickening effects from the oil being that laden with soot? Usually above 2-3% it will thicken up considerably.

Have you looked at a dino oil at 5000mi via oil analysis? Even the CI-4 spec oils which are designed for the heat and soot load due to the egrs in engines (such as ours), and the 15w-40 oils stay in grade pretty well, I know from looking at plenty of analyses that I really wouldnt trust any dino oil for mch motre than 3000 miles in a gasoline engine, which I would think is easier on the oil. Granted we have nearly 8qt sumps, but still...

Can you give me more information on the spinner II filter? It sounds like it does good for you, and I might be interested in trying one of them.

Thanks for your posts,

JMH