Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-26-2003, 11:02 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 34
Question 603.691 versus 603.960

Does anyone know if the 603.960 engine in the 300D is interchangable with 603.961 in the 300SDL? As it appears I'm facing the typical headgasket/head replacement in my '86 300SDL, I'm wondering if I can locate a good used engine for similar money?

Thanks,

David Jonas

'86 300SDL 139k mi.
'84 300TD 240k mi.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-27-2003, 01:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
A good used engine will be more than the head job, if you can even find one. Last time I checked with European Connection he didn't have one that was good, all had something serious wrong with them.

I don't know about interchangeability, but I would assume it would fit, don't know of any serious differences.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-27-2003, 05:51 PM
mplafleur's Avatar
User Friendly
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lathrup Village, Michigan
Posts: 2,939
I saw that Adsit will rebuild the head on this car for $520. New springs/valves are extra.

Potomac has a 603 engine for $1800 I think. It had 224k on it though. I would just rebuild the one you have, which is what I'm going to do with the one that I have.
__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-27-2003, 05:59 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 20,841
Quote:
Originally posted by mplafleur
I would just rebuild the one you have, which is what I'm going to do with the one that I have.
And the hole in the block?

The message I sent you with the ad for a 300SDL bounced back so I guess you didn't get it. The ad's gone and I didn't save a copy of it.

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-27-2003, 09:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 34
Sometimes, if you look off the "beaten path" you can find a wreck with good running gear for cheap money.

Dave Jonas

'86 300SDL
'84 300TD
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-27-2003, 09:51 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Trust me, you aren't going to find a complete running condition 603.xxxx for what it costs to have a head gasket replaced! Rebuild of a decent condition engine is $5000 for parts alone, 50 hrs labor, I checked.

Good condition 603 probably would be in the vicinity of $3000. Blown one in rebuildable condition, $1500. They are fairly uncommon, and usually driven to death.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-27-2003, 10:11 PM
mplafleur's Avatar
User Friendly
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lathrup Village, Michigan
Posts: 2,939
Peter,

I'm going to rebuild the head and get a replacement block. I've found one for $280, but I don't know if I should grab it. Is that a good price? Maybe it's irrelevant if I can't find another. I can only use blocks from 86-87 OM603's. My choices are very limited.
__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-27-2003, 10:14 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 20,841
Grab it!

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-27-2003, 10:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
For $280, if it doesn't have a hole in it, and no cracks, grab it!

Sleeves are $35 apiece or so, so if the pistons are OK (don't remember the whole story) you can save the $2500 you will spend on new ones (ouch!).

Bearings, etc are similar to other Benz engines. Rods aren't cheap, but you want the latest ones.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-28-2003, 01:58 AM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 20,841
Michael,

If you go rod shopping, let us know if the .96x rods have been updated like the .97x rods. Maybe gsxr has looked into this.

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-28-2003, 08:47 AM
mplafleur's Avatar
User Friendly
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lathrup Village, Michigan
Posts: 2,939
I haven't taken the head off yet, so I don't know where that 6th piston is at. Still in the hole I hope. I knew I needed to replace the one rod, but was thinking that I should replace all of them. (and not very happy about it either)

The car is stored at my moms farm and I don't expect to get up to it for a few weeks. I'm heading out to Oshkosh this weekend and I think we're going across the state next weekend.

I had the trans rebuilt last month in Cummins, GA. It looks pretty sweet now, all wrapped in plastic. The engine is so covered in oil and grime, I'd just like to dip the whole darned thing in a big tank of Gunk. This rebuild is going to be extended over a long period of time...
__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-28-2003, 04:59 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
Dave, forget swapping engines and just replace the head. A good used engine will cost you $2-$4k with shipping and then there's no guarantee on the labor if it's a lemon! You want either a new head, OR a used head from a 1990-95 3.5L OM603.97x, since the later heads are stronger and won't crack like the early 3.0L (1986/87) heads. Used 3.5L heads can be found under $1000, and the cheapest source I know of for a new head is www.speed-autoteile.com in Germany, about $1500 total including crappy exchange rates and shipping to the USA. Cheapest source in the USA will be ~$1750+. Dealer wants over $2k. That's a BARE head (with guides) that you swap you valves, etc into. NOBODY sells rebuilt OM60x heads. When they fail, they crack, and are impossible to repair without expensive welding procedures (and VERY few shops are capable of performing this properly).

The only way you'll find a good OM60x head under $500 will be if it is one of the early, crack-prone 1986/87 heads. This is a big enough job that I would NOT put one on my car since you may be pulling the head off a second time! IMO, there are two types of early heads: those that have cracked, and those that will shortly. You can tell from the casting number above the #2 injector, will be something like 603-xxx-yy-zz. If "yy" is 15 or lower, it's the old/weak head. If "yy" is 17 or higher, it's the new, stronger head. My car got a new head in 2002 and it's number "yy" is 22. Here's photos of the head swap:



Good luck,
__________________
Dave
Boise, ID

Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Last edited by whunter; 02-01-2008 at 12:18 AM. Reason: removed bad link
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-28-2003, 09:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 34
Thanks to all the senior members for taking the time to reply. As you are all in agreement on the subject, I guess I'll be replacing a head rather than an engine.

Dave M., the "yy" numbers on my head are 14 which confirms my impression the the head is original. I thought I was being smart by purchasing an '86 instead of an '87 but I neglected to take into account that the car came from California where trap oxiders were installed on the '86s.

What started my thinking on an engine swap was the '87 300E on Ebay with 75k ona rebuilt engine. I thought, hmmm.... a good engine and spare parts as a bonus. What's with the yellow valve cover and IP on thids car?


Dave Jonas

'86 300SDL 139K mi.
'84 300TD 240K mi.

Last edited by whunter; 02-01-2008 at 12:18 AM. Reason: removed bad link
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-28-2003, 10:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
New rods come only as sets -- the new ones are heavier so you will need all six.....

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-29-2003, 08:58 AM
mplafleur's Avatar
User Friendly
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lathrup Village, Michigan
Posts: 2,939
Do you mean that when I saw a price for rod a while back for $175, it would have been for a set? In that case, it isn't so bad.

What is the part number for the con rods that I want?

__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page