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  #1  
Old 08-07-2003, 06:09 PM
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Solenoid?

Went out to start the 300SDL today after sitting for around a month.. starter just spins freely but does not engauge and turn the engine.

Tried jumping it, thought maybe the battery was weak.. no good. Tried tapping on the starter with a hammer, no good. Tried spinning the starter for a long time thinking the heat generated from that will free the solenoid.. no good.

After the extended starter spinning session, the terminals on the solenoid were red hot and I saw smoke coming from them.. any ideas? The starter is a remanufactered Bosch unit which is new.. This is obviously a complication from sitting an extended period of time as I had no problems with the starter prior to this.. any ideas?

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  #2  
Old 08-07-2003, 07:23 PM
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If the starter is spinning the solenoid isn't the problem, it just isn't engaging the flywheel. You probably need to remove the starter and clean and lubricate the "gear" on the starter shaft so it can engage the flywheel. At least that's what it sounds like the problem is.... something is sticky. Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2003, 07:24 PM
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john, you might have to remove the starter to see
what's going on in there..

sounds like it's not engaging

did you try pushing / towing it in gear at all?

you might try that first

bob
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Old 08-07-2003, 07:40 PM
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I would first try the "Fonz" method by tapping on the starter while someone else attempts to crank it. If it didn't have any trouble before you parked it for a month, then it should free-up just fine with the afformentioned method. Taking it apart would likely fix it and it really is the right way, but if you want a quick fix my method should work. Please let us know what comes of it.
Have fun, adam Bush
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Old 08-08-2003, 11:43 AM
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did you get it running john?
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2003, 05:18 PM
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No I gave up yesterday after tapping it with a hammer.. It looks like i'm going to have to pull the starter.. I'll tackle it tonight and post back.
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  #7  
Old 08-08-2003, 05:42 PM
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john, i still think if you can you should try to push or pull start it (if you can do it safely) before removing the starter but of course it's your call.
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Old 08-08-2003, 06:45 PM
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turbodiesel,

Do this before taking the starter out: Try turning engine by the crankshaft bolt. If the starter then cranks the engine, it is possible you have a chipped ring gear tooth which would allow the starter to spin.

If the terminals are getting that hot, they are corroded and have a high resistance, They should be taken apart and cleaned to prevent a no start in the future.

P E H
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Old 08-08-2003, 06:52 PM
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peh, that's kind of the theory i was thing about too. get the engine going somehow. as i understand it it is a starter and solenoid that is only a couple of months old. could it be that much corroded in that time ?

bob
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  #10  
Old 08-08-2003, 07:14 PM
Spo123
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solenoid?

John,
The starter consists of 2 parts.
1st; the motor assembly....this SPINS the starter gear only.
2nd; the solenoid......this ENGAGES the starter GEAR to contact the flywheel teeth.

So, if the gear is indeed spinning, this WILL indeed HEAT up the starter motor. Remember, do not run the starter excessively. This WILL overheat and burn it out, ie; the windings in the starter motor itself.

The difficulty you seem to be experiencing appears to be the engagement of the gear and the flywheel. Thus, a broken tooth on the flywheel could cause your trouble. an example is that when the engine shuts down, the inherent balance and compression etc. cause the engine to stop moving in a position which occurs somewhat regularly. ie; the flywheel stopping in a couple of common stopping points.....one of which MAY be on a chipped or broken tooth.

However, the MOST COMMON reason for the starter gear to NOT engage is a malfunction of the solenoid. All that a solenoid is is an electrically actuated PLUNGER that pushes the gear forward and retracts when the electricity is shut off. The plunger may STICK in its barrel, and or the pivot point at the gear may be stuck.

Anyway, enough of the theory. Save receipts. (i know that you have)....if you do not get the gears to mesh, (the hammer while turning the key is an EXCELLENT idea) then remove (sorry) the unit for a bench test....This should allow you to actually see the plunger moving in and out.....Even with a BOSCH reman. you may just have a defective unit.....Beware of the so called warrenty with ELECTRICAL components.....perhaps you know of a shop which would say that they installed it PROFESSIONALLY.

How is the POLICE CAR? Fast ......BEWARE of the ford POS transmission. The other caveat is the notorious heater box (now this way in MOST newer autos )

Watch out for speeding tix.

Best wishes always, spo.
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  #11  
Old 08-08-2003, 07:50 PM
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The solenoid is fine if the starter spins as it also acts as the contactor for the motor -- there are a pair of contacts and a copper plate on the forward end, when the solenoid pull the gear forward into the flywheel, it also closes the circuit for the motor at the end of the travel.

If it were sticky, it would cause the gear to engage slowly, and spin the drive gear before it engaged in the flywheel, cause a godawful screech.

If the engine isn't turning, you probably have lost the overrunning clutch, so the gear isn't turning. You have to pull the starter to replace it.

There is also a chance that there are enough teeth missing off the flywheel so that the gear doesn't touch any, but you would have noticed that, it makes terrible noises too.

Peter
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  #12  
Old 08-08-2003, 10:19 PM
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Turbodiesel,

I can vouch for the fact that when the ring gear looses teeth, it protests loudly. I doubt if you have never heard a horrible, loud screeching, metallic grinding noise a bunch of times that your ring gear has just quietly given up a few teeth. If this happens it is usually a combination of the ring gear teeth being fatigued by the initial starting torque cycles (which occur on the same teeth preferentially) and the pinion gear beginning to spin too early in the solenoid stroke so it tries to engage the ring gear when it is already moving at full speed. The latter is the source of the horrible noise.

I think there is something seriously wrong with the starter installation or assembly. It is not supposed to be set to allow the starter motor contacts to be activated until the pinion gear has engaged the ring gear. Otherwise the pinion gear or the ring gear would be made as a sacrificial item, and the horrible grinding noise as the spinning pinion slammed into the ring gear would be normal. So if your starter is running and the gears are not grinding or turning the motor over, there is something amiss with either the installation or the assembly. I would remove the starter and see if it is misaligned (maybe the mounting fasteners have been lost or damaged, allowing the unit to become misaligned?) relative to the ring gear, or the assembly has been compromised somehow and the relative location of the solenoid parts has shifted so the "full" extension does not actually reach the ring gear with the pinion. For this to happen all of the sudden with no noisy indications of impending failure is a little strange.

So, I line up with those suggesting removing the starter is your best course of action. If it is somehow misaligned and you never ground any gear teeth as it went from aligned to misaligned, count yourself lucky. If you have what appears to be a bit of luck and the unit starts working again, but only by the smallest margin of tooth engagement, it could badly overload the gear teeth leading to future bigger issues. I had an even like this with our 240D shortly after we bought the car. The starter died, I removed it and had it rebuilt, reinstalled it and it worked for a while. Unfortunately it was never properly assembled and, unfortunately, the pinion never engaged the ring gear correctly. This led to the dreaded screeching noise and ultimately to a ring gear replacement as well as a Bosch rebuilt starter. All of which was a lot more trouble than just buying a Bosch rebuild to start with, even if you don't consider the problems occured in the Winter, I have no garage, and had to take the starter out to find the damaged ring gear while lying on my back on a snow covered dirt driveway. Good luck, Jim
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Owned:
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2003, 03:36 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions.

As I said before, I NEVER had ANY starting issues with this car before letting it sit 4 or 6 weeks. No grinding, no nothing.. I know something just got frozen from sitting.. The reman Bosch starter operated perfectly from 280,000 miles to current 320,000 with no problems. I can pretty much say for a fact the starter was installed correctly and I don't have any missing teeth on the flywheel. IMO, the solenoid is just not throwing out the gear to contact the flywheel for unknown reasons.

I actually fell asleep after a long day of work, but I will be outside tommorow and I will post back.

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