Larry Delor's (from previous post) high opinion of these fine automobiles (82-85 300D's) was one of the main factors in me buying my '85 300D (267K). Larry and I will soon be related (I'm gonna marry his mom). After seeing how reliable his was (i.e., if you disregard the uncommon flywheel problem), I decided that I wanted to have one of these "tanks" to drive. Once I get on the freeway, I really appreciate having the turbo. Especially when I'm in the middle of the lousy Detroit traffic.

As far as maintenance goes, I think everyone summed it up pretty much when they said that it is simple and alot of it is DIY.

Good luck,
Frank


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FrankieZ
84 500SEL EURO 87K
85 300DT 267K (not my miles tho)

Gentleman, there is a lot of praise of the older diesels here however only one person mentioned the W124 chassis with the 2.5 diesel engine. I am just wondering if there is a particular reason for this (namely less reliability from the 3 liter six cilynder turbo diesel, I know about the trap oxidizer problem) or just lack of response. I've always been a gasoline fan however lately I am considering jumping the fence (I do drive a lot). I am still a bit squamish about the performance of said diesel though (I love the W124 chassis, just the right size for me) does anyone know the performance difference between the 300E and the 300TD. I mean real world difference: offline acceleration, passing ability, and highway pick-up. Also I live up north, winter is no joke around here so how bad is it to start these cars in the winter? Do I absolutely need a block heater? My 300E just passed the 240k (I know it is not that much by diesel standards) so proper maintenance would not be a problem.
Thanks.

Alex

THe 300D 2.5 is actualy a 5 cylinder and it is rare, but a very good motor. In the book I recomended in my earlier post they call it an excellent car and a best bet in a 1990 or later diesel. It does not have a trap oxidizer and is probably one of the quickest diesels 0-60 in 9.8 seconds. The car clatters like a diesel at idle (I had to get used to this, since I never had a diesle), but as soon as you hit the gas, it is dead silent. The car is a pleasure to drive. The 1990-1993 diesels can be identified by the 6 slots in the right fender, this is the opening for the intake, but these cars are rare. When I tried to find one on the internet, I was originally looking for a 1985 SD, but I saw this diesel was local and decided to drive it just to make sure I reallly wanted a diesel. After that, it was history. I was sure I wanted this car, not the 1985 SD. Don't get me wrong the SD is a great car, but I fell in love with this car after just sitting in it.

Everyone just about covered the topic of Diesels, and gasoline engines, so Im not gonna continue...except that you might have a problem of having to find a fuel station that serves diesel. Here in New York City, not all fuel stations carry diesel. Its pretty much a ***** to drive around looking for diesel...just my 2 cents


Agron
1989 300E

BLAME THIS POST ON CANADA!, ha ha ha

I thought that skit at the Oscars was hilarious, anyway:

To my 2 friends in cold country, aka Canada, let me answer those 2 questions to the best of my ability. In the States we call it the "Emmisions Test", in Canada it is the "Air Care Test" I believe. As far as the requirements to pass these tests are concerened, all depends on the State, or in your case Province, with which you live. In may even depend on the County inside the state for which you live. For example, in North Carolina, there are NO Emmisions requirements for diesels so you can have a smokestack coming out of your tailpipe and no one can say anything. All gas engines post 1980 something need to be checked. However, in northern States, i.e., New York, I would bet that there are requirements for diesels. You need to check with your local Motor Vehicle Division for details.

As far as horspower is concerned my 300 SEL gas engine has 177 HP, my 300 SD had 125 HP or something like that, around a %30 drop in power even with a Turbo. You will notice a difference in acceleration so if you have to do a lot of stop and go, you may want to go with the gas engine.

As far as a block heater, in Canada it is an absolute must, no matter where you are for a diesel. I would assume that at least %50 of US users would need one as well. You need the heat to get that engine warm enough to ignite that fuel, especially in the morning.

If you live in Hawaii, Florida, Arizona, etc, no block heater is needed.

As far as the price of diesel fuel is concerned, probably depends on where you live. On the east coast US, Premium gas is around $1.70 (US) and Diesel is around $2 (US). Right now with better fuel economy on the diesel you would probably break even in fuel costs at the end.

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'89 420 SEL
'90 300 SEL
'84 300 SD (sold it)

Hey Mattsuzie,

Diesel is that expensive currently on the US East Coast?!

Here in the Detroit area, it's running right around $1.49/gallon. :p

Whew! Glad I'm not out there on the coast!

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FrankieZ
84 500SEL EURO 87K
85 300D 267K (and still goin' strong)

I've seen diesel here this weekend for $1.499, 1.559, 1.599, 1.699, and 1.759. Depends on where you shop. Kerosene is 2.219-2.599!

I've had a 123 300D diesel for 9 years and I loved the car! Great mileage and power. I was not planning to sell it til' I got my eyes on a 124 300D (Euro) Non-turbo. I thought my 123 was great, but the handling, interior silence, engine silence and power was just amazing! I love this car. In fact, I'm still looking for 2 more as my Dad and my brother-in-law also want the same after driving my car. The 124 300D is a great great car to own and to drive!


Francis
Philippines

I had a 123 diesel turbo that was a real gem The car had 275,000 when I last saw it, and engine, transmission were A1. I believe the old 3.0 liter diesels are the basis of MB's reputation for longevity. What's more, the turbocharger worked perfectly. Find a turbocharged American car with 275,000 miles.
The new ones are not in my line, I would stil like to have an old 300D Turbo, especially the 5 cylinder version.

Frankie Z, I love those smilie faces, especially the blue one with the "Amazement" face. Yes, to my surprise Diesel around here is more expensive than gas. I would assume it is because there is not a big following in this area. That blue face is the same one I had when I saw the diesel price sign for the first time.

In PA and NJ, diesel may be cheaper than gas. Diesel is dirt cheap (today's standards) in Detroit from what I read. In the Philippines, diesel is much, much, much cheaper than gas because the whole country is transported by buses and the so called "Jeepneys" the American WWII Jeeps converted into a small bus. In the Philippines, I believe, there are also no emissions requirements for diesels. Also, with the undescribible traffic, High mileage and an engine able to succumb high temperatures with Air Conditioning on is a must, hence, the diesel is better in the Phils.

I could also bet than in major cities, ie Detriot, Chicago, where they are major transportation hubs for 18-wheelers, diesel could be cheaper than gas based on demand.

Also. let's not forget your local General Assembly and Uncle Sam for fuel taxes. Either way, you need to check out your local pumps.


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'89 420 SEL
'90 300 SEL
'84 300 SD (sold it)

Folks,

Remember, diesel fuel price is a small part of the long term equation. First of all diesels typically go further on each gallon of fuel (see my post at the top about more energy in each gallon).

Also, once you start driving a diesel, I believe it will surprise you how easy it is to find diesel fuel. I'm at a point where I can almost glance at a station and tell you whether or not they sell diesel fuel. Granted, it is much less available in the inner cities. However, if you are always in the city, driving stoplight to stoplight, a diesel is probably not the best choice for you anyway.

Good luck,

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Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 516K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

i've been keeping an eye for a decent MB diesel (any year)here in Vancouver, but are not very many selling, maybe due to all the above reasons. the few i've check are in the 5,000 bucks range for 80 - 85 models. i've also been told that the 300SDL is "rare."

If at all possible, know the "pedigree" of the car you are considering. If not possible, then by all means, have car checked out by a mechanic of YOUR choice. In my experience, many 2nd, 3rd, and 4th owners of MB have acquired them believing the "run forever without repair" hype. They then encounter unexpected costs for which they are unprepaired, and the maintenanace of the car suffers. The diesels are great, and the 2.5 turbo is a quantum leap over those that preceded it...quieter,much quicker and faster top end. I have recorded 34 36 mpg at constant 75mph.

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66 220S
67 250S
74 280C
77 300D
82 280SE 4.5
82 240D
85 190E 2.3
86 300E (current)
85 300SD
92 300D 2.5 (current)
Over 1,000,000 miles in Benzes, Since66

[This message has been edited by Since66 (edited 04-06-2000).]

Minor correction to my previous message posted on April Fool:

I said:

"The best diesel is 1984 300D or 300SD. 1985 is the next best. If you want to buy MB diesel after 1985, do your home work thoroughly."

It should be:
"For California, The best diesel is 1984 300D or 300SD and 1985 is the next best. Other States, both '84 and '85 are the best. If you want to buy MB diesel after 1985 or any 190D, do your home work thoroughly."

I like the W124 2.5 turbo diesel. But, living in California, I never have a chance to lay my hands on any one of these diesels (49 State car). I have to settle down for a 87 300D and enjoying driving it. I always recommend the 617 engine to my friends, not the 603 (87, 300D) . You just cannot predict when the 603 engine is going to die and it is very expensive to fix. With pre-inspection by a good mechanic, a 617 engine's life is predictable.

Arosen stated that the performance of a W124 2.5 turbo is 9.8 seconds from 0-60. My research indicated a different number. For comparsion, here is what I have:

W124 300D (602) 2.5 Turbo, 12.4 seconds.
W126 350SDL (603) Turbo, 11.4 seconds.
W124 300D (603) Turbo, 10.5 seconds (with trap oxidizer).
W126 300SD (617) 14 seconds.
W124 E300 (small gas engine?) 12.6 seconds.

For 617 engine between '80 and '85, the older models have less power. All 300SDs have turbo and the body style changed to W126 in 1981. All 300Ds from '77 on are w123 but turbo was used starting 1982 (1981 for station wagon).

There are 300SDL for sale in Southern California, but it is expensive, ~$10,000. From what I see, in my area, used 300Ds have a significant price different bwteen 1981 and 1982 because of the turbo. 300D is usually 1/3 cheaper than 300SD in the used car market here. There are many diesels for sale in my area. To find a well kept one at reasonable price is hard.


David

excellent insights.... enjoyed your post. The '86/-87 SDL is true luxury and oomfort. Again find one well taken care of and enjoy after getting the oil changes where you want and knowing the fuel and air filters are unclogged and breathing with the strength of a sprinter...

never enjoyed a car more with the exception of my '92 500E on the hills of Austin, Texas.

life IS good!