Anyone Replaced Timing Chain By Themselves?

[TomJ]

Can't get ahold of Grimgaunt and no one else around who's savvy enough to help roll a new chain in (I'm the one everyone asks to help work on their cars, not the other way around), so....

Who's done one by themselves and can offer some advice on it.

Had a Laverda Jota 1000 that I replaced a few timing chains on myself, but could turn the crank WHILE holding the chain, not so with this.

Maybe safety wire a weight to the short end while it's being pulled to keep it from falling in? Maybe bungies?

[engatwork]

Used double tie wraps as an extra measure of safety. Take your time.

[R Leo]

Tom,
Generally, I think you break the chain, link the new chain to the old and pull it through, clamping the new chain to the cam sprocket with vice grips a step at a time as you pull the engine through. Of course, all this has to be done über carefully or you risk loosing the timing on the IP, in which case it will probably be easier to shoot yourself and come back in another life as a German auto mechanic than reestablish the correct IP timing.

When the end reappears, connect the new chain with the link provided and peen it over. Eeek.

I do not know if you release tension on the bananna guide before doing this. Maybe Greg has some insight on this whole thing...he's pretty good at making sense out of the Deutschlish in the FSMs.

There is a special (surprise!) MBZ tool which functions as a temporary guide and is bolted where it covers the cam sprocket. It captures the chain, keeping it from hopping off of the sprocket and takes the place of the vice grip technique mentioned above.

Having barred these engines over a few times, I think I'd pull the GPs before attempting this...wouldn't do you any good to have the engine accidentally roll back or ahead on compression.

[leathermang]

For a quick reply...
I think that using a pulley and a weight to keep the pressure on the chain is what some use...
If you have the lower sheetmetal off... I think it was TCane that told me he made a ' holder' out of something like a metal coffee can cut in half... to be sure the chain did not fall off the bottom of the crank sprockets...
I will look in the fsm right now...

[TomJ]

Originally posted by R Leo
............
I do not know if you release tension on the bananna guide before doing this. Maybe Greg has some insight on this whole thing...he's pretty good at making sense out of the Deutschlish in the FSMs.....

Well, I had planned to replace the tensioner assy anyway, so maybe that will nullify the pressure issue.

Originally posted by R Leo
........
Having barred these engines over a few times, I think I'd pull the GPs before attempting this...wouldn't do you any good to have the engine accidentally roll back or ahead on compression.

Good point. The engine turns just fine with the plugs and injectors installed, but the rolling over on compression would be a principle reason to remove the plugs. Safety wire or vice grips are easy enough, just takes time, but after 36 years of wrenching (started on the fender of our Willys Overland at 4y/o handing Dad wrenches and learning how to cuss properly) I've gained a micro-inch of patience and can probably tolerate the lack of speed in running it in.

Beside, it's still up on blocks at all fours!

Anyone else chime in???

[R Leo]

If you have the lower sheetmetal off... I think it was TCane that told me he made a ' holder' out of something like a metal coffee can cut in half... to be sure the chain did not fall off the bottom of the crank sprockets...
[/B]

There's no removable 'lower' sheetmetal that exposes the crank sprocket. I think that piece Greg's talking about is the same as the 'special' MBZ part I mentioned above...

[leathermang]

Tom, my impression from the first post was that you know how to do this... just not ALONE... is that correct ? Or do you need more stuff from the fsm about this procedure ?

Randy, I may have been visualizing the tool which holds the chain in place when the IP has to be taken out..
Or it may have been for when the entire engine is being rebuilt and the crank sproket is being renewed IN addition to installing a NON MASTER LINK chain... will post the pics of those...

[psfred]

Jim's wiretie plan is probably the best. I've used vise grips, and it's a hassle -- if you aren't carefull, they hit the screw holding the oiler pipe to the front tower and the engine "locks up". Scared me for a while.

I also slipped and dropped the slack side and had to fish it up -- bigger PITA.

Keep both ends on the cam sproket and you don't have to rupture yourself pulling on the old chain to get it all the way up!

This is not fast, took me a couple hours.

The nice Klann tool (my friend Hans only had the gas engine one) fits over the cam and sits on the chain on both sides, with a slot cut in the top for the crimp tool. Very nice, if it had fit....

Peter

[MikeTangas]

Peter hit on a big issue - the out flow of old chain needs to stay in contact with the cam as well the inflow of new chain.

I usually back off the tensioner bolts, most of the way out, to relieve some of the tension on the out flow chain. I also use the zip ties to keep both ends of chain in contact with the cam sprocket. It does slow the process down but it is a inexpensive work around for the lack of the MB guide. I have done two V-8 chains in this fashion without problem. Use the samller zip ties, they hold fine and cut easily, just use care to ensure one doesn't drop in the head.

Once you have the chain completely rolled in it will appear you are one link short. You aren't. Now remove the tensioner completely and the chain ends will come together. Once you have the master link in, put in your new tesnioner and you are good to go.

[TomJ]

Originally posted by MikeTangas
.........
I usually back off the tensioner bolts, most of the way out, to relieve some of the tension on the out flow chain. I also use the zip ties to keep both ends of chain in contact with the cam sprocket. ......................
Once you have the chain completely rolled in it will appear you are one link short. You aren't. Now remove the tensioner completely and the chain ends will come together. Once you have the master link in, put in your new tesnioner and you are good to go.

OK, so from what I'm reading, you DIDN'T remove the tensioner first, just back off the bolts? R&R the tensioner AFTER you get the chain in?

[TomJ]

No timing chain replacement today!

Have the chain tied-up and cut apart, took the new chain out of the box and there is no link, just the chain.

The box came with the bottom half ripped open, probably from rough shipping, there was no link in the box that everything shipped in though, so it probably happened on the way TOO the ************** warehouse.

Anyway, I'm dead in the water now and it's supposed to snow tonight/tomorrow. Guess just like everything else on this car, "just wait a week", then there'll be something else I'll find I have to order and "just wait a week" for that, then......

Maybe it'll be running in time for the 2010 Olympics? By then we won't have cars I'm sure.

[leathermang]

oK,, silly question.. but no chance the link is installed on the end of the chain as compared to being packaged loose ?

Many good suggestions regarding rolling in a new chain.

My only comment relates to the fear of losing IP timing. Yes, it's not a good thing, but as long as cam and crank timing are correct, retiming the IP is really not complicated, just extra time spent.

Merry Christmas,

[MikeTangas]

Backing off the tensioner will give you just a little slack. That is really all you need to help keep the chain slightly taut. Once you remove the tensioner you will then be able to lift the end of the new chain to get the end over that last sprocket and make the connection with the master link. Getting the new tensioner in will be a pain because the tensioner will be a bear to compress and hold in place while getting the bolts in. Patience is the key (that and a good firm push while threading the bolts ).

[leathermang]

Mike, did you not ' deratchet ' the tensioner before you put it back in ?