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  #1  
Old 01-07-2004, 06:13 PM
BoostnBenz's Avatar
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Setting timing with IP lock tool.... Why won't the plunger set?

Just wondering if I'm doing something wrong here I went as far as I could each way while rotating the plunger on the IP camshaft lock nut tool and it won't go in any further than what it did when it threaded. Did I not mess with it enough? Isn't 14 ATDC an acceptable value for setting it (1* advanced)? I'm not supposed to be at 23* BTDC am I?! Is there something I need to check other than just ATDC on the harmonic balancer?

Thanks,
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2004, 07:24 PM
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The crank turns twice for each IP turn so if the lock doesn't go in the first time, give the crank a full turn then try again.

Sixto
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  #3  
Old 01-07-2004, 09:05 PM
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Will do, thanks.
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #4  
Old 01-07-2004, 09:58 PM
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Well I tried that as well and it still didn't want to set. Is the notch in the flywheel flat? I think I can see it with a mirror and it is very close when I have the IP advanced as far as it goes (towards block) but the plunger still doesn't want to set there or anywhere in the IPs reach.
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #5  
Old 01-07-2004, 10:29 PM
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I've been flustered by this process as well...

The flywheel has a little inverted vee (^) ridge that should fit into the slot in the locking plunger. What drives me nuts is that the plunger can rotate 360 degrees around, so I could never feel 100% confident that it would click into the lock position by threading it in and slowly rotating the engine until it popped into place. The CD manual isn't much help with this technique.

I ended up just eye-balling it, then when I thought the ridge was in the best postion, I threaded the lock-tool into place and rotated the plunger until it popped down on the ridge. This took quite a few attempts mind you...

Makes me wish MB would take a few tips from VW for an easier and more positive method for determining and adjusting IP timing (e.g. a dial indicator).
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2004, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
[ . . . ] and slowly rotating the engine until it popped into place. [ . . . ]
I presume you mean you rotated the IP until the plunger popped into place!? I wonder which side of the notch I'm seeing then, it doesn't seem to go in at all as it is.

Here is a pessimist thought here, I wonder if the IP was installed off just a little bit. The car has always lagged badly off of the line (has great power after 2k) but it still got good mileage, the more time went on the worse it would smoke. Now it is at the point where I can see smoke behind me at cruise speed at night and my mileage has fell quite noticeably (setting record lows in the upper 20s ;-) ). More info, there was a bolt on the back of the IP which is missing, the hardest one to set and also one of the bolts in the IP has two seal rings on it for some reason. This makes me think that somebody messed with it before and didn't put it back right. Sound plausable? Should I just try setting it as far advanced as possible (as close to the notch) and see how it runs? Oh and the timing chain is brand new.
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #7  
Old 01-08-2004, 12:53 AM
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Here's a .pdf with a picture of the flyweight and lockpin combo in action. It's on page 7.
http://www.scattercreek.com/~coho/images/Inj.%20lockpin07.1-8410.pdf

I see that you have an '83 model OM 617, and I assume this is the engine on which you're attempting this procedure. I was under the impression that the lockpin tool would only work on late '84 and '85 model OM 617's--I could be wrong.

For my OM 603:
*I set the crank pointer at 14 degrees ATDC (gsxr's recommendation).

*Pull off my oil cap to be sure the two cam lobes on #1 cyl are in their upright position.

*Then look in the screw hole to see if the flyweight ridge is centered in view. If not, then I loosen all the IP bolts and turn the adjuster turnbuckle (your IP may not have this feature) to rotate the pump CW or CCW to line up the ridge.

*When I think the ridge is close to center, I screw in the lockpin and rotate the plunger until it pops into place and can no longer be rotated without pulling back against the spring--VOILA!

*I then crank down the IP bolts and remove the lockpin.

*I then start the procedure all over by rotating the engine 2 full revolutions, then re-check the timing yet again.
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2004, 11:09 AM
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It doesn't work on all the 83s, just some. The whole problem is whether they have the bolt or not, I do.

Wow it is an outward ridge? I should look through my factory service manual for a cross sectional view of my IP, it seems like the 603 could be setup quite differently in this aspect. It shows almost a step in the flywheel in this pdf but this one doesn't show it. I presume when they say -15* ATDC that they mean 15* after (to the left of) the TDC marker and not 15* to the right of. Am I wrong? If it is like this latter method then 16* (to the right) would be advanced 1* and not 14*.

Thanks,
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2004, 11:58 AM
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The engine rotates in the CW direction, so the 15 degree ATDC mark will be to the left of the TDC position--after top dead center (ATDC).

It appears as if the OM 617 IP is a completely different animal than the OM 603, so I'm afraid you need someone who has experience with those critters to help you out any further.

Once you finally determine where the ridge is, it might be helpful for future reference if you were to clean the surface and paint a stripe of bright coloring at that point.

Good luck...

BTW: I think you mentioned in another thread that you had the SIR Tools version of the lockpin. I've heard elsewhere that that the OEM MB tool works better than the aftermarket units.

YMMV
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2004, 10:16 PM
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Sir supposedly makes the tool for MB. Same thing as Hazet making the wrenches for the valve adjustments on the MBs. Thanks for everything Zeitgeist. I'll mess with it for a short while longer tomorrow and if I still can't get it to work I'll badger dave, he'll know.
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2009, 12:55 PM
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PDF needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
Here's a .pdf with a picture of the flyweight and lockpin combo in action. It's on page 7.
http://www.scattercreek.com/~coho/images/Inj.%20lockpin07.1-8410.pdf

I see that you have an '83 model OM 617, and I assume this is the engine on which you're attempting this procedure. I was under the impression that the lockpin tool would only work on late '84 and '85 model OM 617's--I could be wrong.

For my OM 603:
*I set the crank pointer at 14 degrees ATDC (gsxr's recommendation).

*Pull off my oil cap to be sure the two cam lobes on #1 cyl are in their upright position.

*Then look in the screw hole to see if the flyweight ridge is centered in view. If not, then I loosen all the IP bolts and turn the adjuster turnbuckle (your IP may not have this feature) to rotate the pump CW or CCW to line up the ridge.

*When I think the ridge is close to center, I screw in the lockpin and rotate the plunger until it pops into place and can no longer be rotated without pulling back against the spring--VOILA!

*I then crank down the IP bolts and remove the lockpin.

*I then start the procedure all over by rotating the engine 2 full revolutions, then re-check the timing yet again.
Does anyone still have this PDF and pictures???
Please e-mail me a copy if you do..



Thanks
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2009, 02:36 PM
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So the car ran fine and progressively got worse?

If so, have you adjusted the valves, and changed the fuel and air filters?
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70's SPM #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

06 VW Jetta TDI 210K miles

03 VW Golf TDI 5 speed 372K Miles

RIP--Lost in fire...82 300D 322K was My Daily Driver-On the search for a w126 now...

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 350K
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2009, 04:08 PM
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Hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrgrassi View Post
So the car ran fine and progressively got worse?

If so, have you adjusted the valves, and changed the fuel and air filters?
The thread is from 2004.

I am looking for the PDF and pictures.
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2009, 04:25 PM
rrgrassi's Avatar
mmmmmm Diesel...
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
The thread is from 2004.

I am looking for the PDF and pictures.

Note to self...pay attention to the posting date...
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70's SPM #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

06 VW Jetta TDI 210K miles

03 VW Golf TDI 5 speed 372K Miles

RIP--Lost in fire...82 300D 322K was My Daily Driver-On the search for a w126 now...

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 350K
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2009, 05:57 PM
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Whunter,
P.M sent
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