Hardstarting E300 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

shoe · #1 01-17-2004, 10:48 AM

According to my code discriptions from Startek info code P1617 is listed as "Control module or not coded" It almost soounds as though your control module is temporarily loosing it's memory. Just a guess. It also makes a reference under test step - remedy, see HHT (hand held tester) "version coding" menu selection 5. If you get it to a MB shop your may want to show them this. Hope it helps.

michakaveli · #2 01-17-2004, 11:58 AM

Anyone have an idea if there coul dbe water in their fuel systems? Water freezing, thus permitting fuel to flow through? The fuel filter is heated by the engine using a recirculation system, so once th ecar is warmed up and running the fuel filter assembly is really warm. Touch it next time after you drive the car and it's warmed up.

As for me I know I might have a small water issue, I have some condensation on my fuel cap everytime I go to fill up. IS this normal or should I be concerned? I've never had a problem starting mine, but within th epast week sometimes she has some hesitation, but I feel that is fuel related. Other thna that my 606 runs without issues to cold weather...

slowmoe · #3 01-17-2004, 02:04 PM

Wow, thanks for all the info, guys. I am trying to cover all the basis... 1) Stong battery, fuel, glow, and compression.

Battery:

Since my battery light came on after cranking so much this morning, I took it over to Pep Boys to have them do their test. The battery is the origional from '96 and everything checked out fine.

Fuel:

I added additional PowerService to the tank and changed the spin-on filter. I am not sure how to remove the smaller one. I removed the 10mm bolt and the little plate that it goes through. I then tryied prying the plastic away from the metal housing and cracked a bit of it off. What am a doing wrong? My assumption is that if there was a filter issue that it would be the spin-on and no the basket as the basket is down-stream from the spin-on. Is this a correct assumption?

Glow:

Since my glow light is going on and off as normal and I hear the relay switching off after 30 seconds- I assume the GPs are good. Can I be wrong here? Also the P1617 code does not relate to GPs.

Compression:

Engine is waaaay to young for this!!

Chuck,

thanks for sharing troubles- misery loves company- but, I think we are having different experiences.

Shoe,

Thanks for the info on the code - but, what do I do with that kind of information... What would the dealership do?

Am I missing anything?

shoe · #4 01-17-2004, 03:38 PM

Unfortunatly there is not much you can do with the info I gave with out a hand held tester and I think that is a MB dealer item. As for the secondary fuel filter your are on the right track to replacement. With the 10mm blot out you pull the clear tube out and then with a flat screwdriver GENTLY pry the screen out going from side to side. I doubt this is your problem but it never hurts to look. As for water in the fuel and in Michaveli's case if you live in a humid place like me then a little condensation on the inside of the fuel cap is not unusual. I would only suspect water in the fuel if you just filled up at a different station than you usually do. I read chuck95300d comment and he may very well have a small point. If your fuel is gelling it may be starving for fuel. I wish I could be of more help I am just not used to such cold weather so I have not experianced these kind of problems.

chuck95e300d · #5 01-17-2004, 03:50 PM

Just to clarify, I don't think that there is a problem with the small filter, but rather you should look there to see if the cylinder that the filter fits in is full of fuel. Mine was not and would not start. Once I warmed everything up and cranked the motor it filled with fuel and started. In my case I think the fuel in the spin on filter was gelled. But now you've replaced your spin on filter and it will not start? How long did you crank it? Seems like you'd have to crank it a bit to fill the filter up with fuel first...then fuel should reach the fuel injectors. I don't think the glow plugs are the issue either.

Chuck

slowmoe · #6 01-17-2004, 06:06 PM

Just before I went on vaction for 10 days, I filled up a place around the corner from my house because it was so close and it was so late at night. I was doing this because I did not want my car to be in the garage for 10 days with only a 1/4 tank in it... in order to not have problems like this!

I usually fill up at truck stops on the highway (PA Turnpike and NJ Turnpike Sunocos mostly) The place around the corner is a Sunoco but gets little diesel traffic. I really should have known better. This afternoon after getting the battery checked I put in 8 gallons of Hess (minimum 42 cetane). This plus all the PowereService should resolve any fuel issue...I think.

If filled the spin-on filter with PowerService before replacing it (small funnel, very carefully). This really cuts down on the amount of cranking required to get it to initially fire.

Shoe,

Thanks for the info on the filter. But I still don't get it!! Does the screen fit into a plastic housing or does it go into a mettle one. Also, if I remove the clear fuel tube won't I introduce air into the system down stream from all the filters? This is one of those times I really wish I had a manuel with pictures for this model!!

Chuck,

I think that it is worth a check as well. I just do not want to brake anything trying to do it.

shoe · #7 01-17-2004, 06:18 PM

Slowmoe you remove the clear line and the conector it is connected to, it is sealed with an o-ring. It just pops out, the filter is the plastic piece that you are prying on. It is cone shaped. It fits into the metal housing. I should have been a little clearer. It will introduce a little air but not enough to worry about.

slowmoe · #8 01-17-2004, 09:46 PM

Shoe, thanks for making that more clear.

Would you guys believe that the "Check Engine Electronics" light just went off all on its own tonight!!!

Maybe that fesh diesel and the new filter did the trick. I will know tomorrow when I try to start it again. Although, it should only be 27*F in the AM here. You will all be the second to know!!

michakaveli · #9 01-18-2004, 02:05 AM

If it's nothing major, or an occurerence that happens every once in a while the CEL will go off on it's own. It varies, I've had a CEL take 70-80 miles to clear in as little as 10.

slowmoe · #10 01-18-2004, 09:05 AM

michakaveli,

That would make sense to me too if it were something that were NOT major. But, I would consider my car not starting as major and likewise expect a CEL that would provide an accurate decription of the problem.

shoe · #11 01-18-2004, 10:43 AM

OK......did is start?

slowmoe · #12 01-19-2004, 07:41 AM

20*F outside this morning and no start!!!

I am really at a loss here.

slowmoe · #13 01-19-2004, 08:55 AM

Shoe, or others...

I spoke to my indy this morning. He said that if I got the car to him that he would start by replacing the GPs. $35/gp + $65/hr labor for 2 hrs = $360.40 after tax. I figure I can save the $130 in labor doing it myself.

His decision is based more on the fact that these are the origional GPs and that the car seems to start fine when it is warm than on any diagnostic information.

So, could I bother you for as much information as you can provide for a step by step on this. I have never needed to replace GPs before - so I am not sure if I even have all the tools that I need. I think you said that it is pretty straight forward.

I am still open to other suggestions. Thanks.

shoe · #14 01-19-2004, 11:41 AM

Sorry to hear it still wont start. Have you removed the fuel filter to see if it is not a loss of fuel? I would suggest spinning the filter loose to make sure the filter is full and you are not experiencing any fuel gelling or other fuel starvation. If you are certain that you have adequate fuel supply then here is what you need to replace the glow plug's. You will need a a 6mm allen socket for the intake bolts. The intake removal is very straight forward, remove the bolts and then the flapper valve vacum lines and the intake is off. You may want clean the soot out of the runners and loosen up the flapper valves while the intake is off (amazing the difference proper working flapper valves makes). Once the intake is off I think the glow plugs are 12mm, you will need a deep socket for this and on some of the GP's an exstension is needed. Be carefull when breaking the gp's loose there have been reports of some of them breaking (real bad news if this happens) once they are loose unscrewand pull out. If you encounter resistance after they are unscrewed then as in my earlier post gently twist and pull this is due to carbon build up. It really is easy to do the biggest issue is the potential of breakage. Let me know if these instructions are clear enough. Feel free to email me personally at rschust@entergy.com for anyothe info needed.

michakaveli · #15 01-19-2004, 11:46 AM

Shoe,

Would you recommend replacing the intake gasket? Or can you reuse the one already in place if it looks healthy?