Crash stories w/ and w/out airbags? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pentoman · #31 02-20-2004, 04:19 PM

Hmm, I have zero experience to this, but will add 2 pence..

In the typical comparison tests (esp Euro NCAP) you can compare 2 cars at the same speed and compare injuries.

However, the worst accidents I suspect are those where the car deforms heavily and at the worst you are trapped in the car or your body hits parts which are where they aren't supposed to be.

So, in an '80s Mercedes, you are inside a tank that will not crush you.

A '95 Escort may have airbags so that, at 30 mph, you'll be better off in one as you won't bruise your self on the dashboard, but this may or may not be of help at 50.. 70 mph when the car folds itself in half or you roll over and the roof flattens.

Of course, more important than any of this is active safety - vehicle stability & safe handling, ABS, ESP, and finally a good, alert driver.

good luck all & I hope I never need to find out the difference.

Rusty

#32 02-20-2004, 04:26 PM

DslBnz.

Way before my time.

I wasn't born until 20 years later.

Louis.

Brian Carlton · #33 02-20-2004, 04:29 PM

While you fellows are discussing the merits of crumple zones and the capability (or lack thereof) of front wheel drive, I remain curious as to the original question with a slight modification:

IF you are wearing your seat belt and shoulder harness, as they were designed, did an air bag lessen the severity of your injuries in any way?

If so, I would like to understand exactly how it did that, considering that it would be difficult for you to contact the air bag if the shoulder harness is functioning properly.

I don't think there is any disagreement regarding air bags for those individuals who choose NOT to wear seat belts or shoulder harnesses. They will clearly save your life.

whunter · #34 01-03-2008, 11:57 PM

I am interested in this thread.
More hard data + pictures if posible please.

Thank you.

probear · #35 01-04-2008, 12:18 AM

Actually, not using a seat belt and having an air bag can be a deadly combination. The occupant will have a tendency to ride over the airbag when deployed and hit their head on the front windshield crossmember.

Without the air bag, the occupant would go through the windshield, which actually gave less than the crossmember. (However, IMO, that is no BFD).
MB did a lot of research into air bags, and from what was told to me years ago (when I got my first MB), that is one reason the steering column does not adjust up and down, only in or out.
Granted the early air bags were either on or off, verses the variable deployment designs of today, but unless you are crowding the steering wheel, you will be safer (provided you are using a seat belt)
I do like the ABS on my cars, and highly recommend it, especially for someone like your mother.
As to the choice between a VW and Benz.....hands down safety is the Benz...

Diesel911 · #36 01-04-2008, 02:04 AM

Was hit so hard on the driver side door the car ( 79 Chevette) was flung up into the air (I was told this as I do not remember it) and it landed in the opposite lane and opposite direction.
When I regained orientation I found that I could barely breathe and what little I could take in was over sharp stabbing pains (bunch of ribs broken due to door caving in on me). Got out of the car through the passenger door as the drivers side was crushed. The emergency folks came but I refused to go with them as my car had a lot of my $200 or so mechanic tools in the back and a lot of the glass had busted out. Also I was 1 block from my house. I drove home. Unloaded my tools on the living room floor 1 hand full at time.
After which I called a cab to take me to the hospital (I knew I had broken ribs).
On the way to the hospital I my condition was getting worse (dizzy). Got to the hospital looked down at my hands and I had no color to them, white and extremely dizzy. The wheeled me into the emergency room and I later found out my left lung was collapsing.
I don’t know if a side air bag would have helped or not. I found out later that the other driver never braked at all. My guess is she stepped on the GAS instead hence I was hit extremely hard and the drives side caved in on me (remember the seat belt will keep you where your are when it locks so whe the care caved the seat belts did not let my body move away) so I think even with an air bag the metal was still going to cave in on me.
After the Lawyer and Hospital were paid I had $48,600 left over from the Law suite that I won.
I think the accident was in 1996 and I still hurt now from it and 2 of my ribs are no longer attached to the cartilidge in the lower front.

RUN-EM · #37 01-04-2008, 06:42 AM

Little 16 year old girl thought it more inportant to be cell phone talkin rather than stopping for a stop sign, hit her doing 30 mph., my air bags did not deploy, but great brakes did slow me enough to just hit her in rear quarter, saving her life. Did $15,000 damages to the SLK and the seat belts saved me any injury. Tell your Mom, air bags only work if they WORK. However, if the bags had blown, car would have been considered a total. Was repaired expertly, and I am still enjoying it. Therefore- moral, electrical/mechanical devices can not be relied on, but human/mechanical devices (if used) can. Seat belts in use in USA since 1956 HAVE saved many lives and injuries.

Regards

Run-Em

Hatterasguy · #38 01-04-2008, 11:55 AM

I'll take a new S550 over my SDL in a crash any day.

Modern airbags don't just blow, they blow in stages. I think Lexus was the first one to start to use this system, needless to say MB and other high end makes use it now as well.

MB now has "pre safe" which is a really good idea, along with the modern airbag systems they won't go off unless they have to.

Throw in another 30 years and countless billions spent in R&D with crumple zones and safety cages, and you have some safe cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMqEf4NwsKg

Its also nice how they make the brake lights blink rapidly if you slam on the brakes, hopefully that will clue the idiot behind you to do like wise.

oldiesel · #39 01-04-2008, 08:28 PM

I feel very safe in our MB,that said i think alot of this "bigger is safer" is more urban legend than fact,especially when it comes to older cars.Newer cars are hard to compare as they pretty much all get 5 star ratings,the rating systems needs to be updated as surely some newer cars are better than others so the testing needs to show that.For the older cars go look at www.safecarguide.com and learn that the 84-88 Pontiac Fiero tested considerably better than the 79-85 Mercedes 300.better than the 79-84 Caddilac DeVille and much better than the Ford 83-91 Crown Vic.We all know that most everyone assumed the Fiero was a sure death trap and their kid should get a safe car like the police drive, a Ford Crown Vic. Some theories die hard with people who will not look at the facts. My $.02 Don

oldiesel · #40 01-04-2008, 08:34 PM

while you are there have a look at the Saab 9000 86-88 Don

Dewhite2485 · #41 01-04-2008, 08:52 PM

I would say the new cars are safer with all the crumple zones and air bags if designed properly and not a tin can on wheels, but if you crash a newer caryou may as well figure on it being totaled everything crumples and bends but all that crunching is taking energy out of the crash that doesnt get taken out on you. The only problem I see with the new cars is some of them are so small there's not enough metal around you to crumple in a higher speed hit, it smashes all it can and then it smashes into your space. There are some neat crash test vid's of the smart car in high speed crashes it has a very strong passenger compartment even though its tiny. I forget the guys name that did the tests but they found that with proper restraints a human can survive a hugh number of decelerating G's without being hurt to much, they used a rocket sled and water to stop it in a very short distance, pretty much just like a race car 6 point harnesses and a HANS device and you can hit a wall head on going a couple hundred miles an hour and walk away. Crash science is some pretty neat stuff

Here's a pic of my 97 Saturn SL1 that didnt do to well against a Ford Explorer that some drunk driver was driving, didnt help the saturn had 2 in drop springs on it put the trunk just at the right height for the bumper of that ford

babymog · #42 01-04-2008, 10:37 PM

While there is much truth to the newer cars being better designed to sustain a collision, the bigger is better still holds true.

In the case of most crash tests, the vehicle is crashing into barriers, which do not reward greater mass. Further, height of frame and of masspoint is not considered nor significant against a barrier.

So, if you hit a tree, a barrier, or a similar vehicle it is a significant rating/test. If you are a car that weighs 3000lbs tangling with an SUV at 6000lbs, you will be experiencing twice the acceleration and possibly the crumple zones will be compromised by not being completely involved (SUV frame above your frame for example) and therefore not completely utilized. I've been around crash testing since the late '60s, they can only tell so much of the story without a great deal more intellegence in the design of the tests.

As far as airbags, ... I hit a deer last fall, driving a 5000lb+ van with a 2000b trailer, the airbags deployed on impact. I had burns on the wrists, arms, chest and abdomen, am 6'1" tall and sit far from the steering wheel with the seatbelt fastened and always tight. Neither fender was touched, nor was the radiator or A/C condensor, drove home with the headlamps still intact, ... wouldn't have had a scratch if not for the damn airbags. Ford seems to think that the airbag sensors should be mounted to the front sheetmetal, so an impact to the front sheetmetal sets them off, far inferior IMO to the center-console mounting of the 124 or 201 et al.

The automobile airbag dates back in my experience to the early '70s, and I believe it actually goes back into the 60s. It became mandated in the '80s when Diane Steed (clueless former head of the NHTSA) decided that people who don't bother to buckle their seatbelts should be protected by something, the "automatic" seatbelts and airbags were the answer. Those of us with two and three-digit IQs had to pay for these airbags regardless of our being intellegent enough to wear our seatbelts. Interesting legislation that: The carmakers are legally required to install seatbelts, you're legally required to wear the seatbelt, and if you don't, the legally required airbag will help to protect you in the initial frontal collision. Huh? I kind of thought driver's killing themselves by not wearing seatbelts was more of Darwin's way (but I digress).

During that same time, Mercedes and others were equipping their European delivery cars with small airbags, referred to here as "face-bags". They were designed to protect belted occupants and were less invasive, M-B had a video of an airbag deploying while the car was being driven (driver's door removed for the video), and the driver's hands weren't knocked from the steering wheel.

More recently the US airbags have been reduced in power to reduce injuries and deaths from airbag deployment, as they should have been originally.

The introduction of side-curtain airbags etc. have certainly improved the safety in side collisions also, an otherwise vulnerable direction for impacts. Fortunately for most, the most common collision is frontal left-offset, which the US has fairly recently recognized also, and adjusted testing to reflect.

It's going to be difficult to gauge how many injuries/deaths airbags and proper seatbelts have prevented, there is no real data on this forum for that kind of study. Besides, don't forget that "my buddy's 2nd cousin's girlfriend's stepbrother was in an accident and the state cop that was on the scene said that he would have been cut in half by the seatbelt if he would have been wearing it etc., etc.". That's a Bubba story for sure. I've heard several versions of this story.

Fact is, seatbelts save lives. Airbags save lives also, and have a better chance to if one is properly buckled. The airbag does not direct one into the windshield header, your masspoint is far below the center of the airbag, that is why most cars with airbags also have a bolster for your knees to prevent you from submarining beneath the dash as the airbag restrains your upper body. Better pre-tensioning seatbelts such as Mercedes, Audi, others have been installing since the mid-'80s help to reduce injuries from the secondary collision (the point where your body at full-speed impacts the seatbelt attached to a car that has already decelerated significantly in the collision). It all gets better, but more expensive after a collision, our van sustained nearly $6000 damage from the deer mostly from the airbags, sensors, steering-wheel with switches and stuff, ... can't imagine what it would cost to replace a complete set of airbags on my LandRover (11 bags I think?), probably $15k. But get hit in the side, you'll probably think it's worth it.

W2014life · #43 01-05-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

1983-1985 300D or a 1984-1990 190D

I've had my 190D since I've been 18, now 20. There's no real need for an airbag in any vehicle. All it does is make you feel more secure to speed and be wreckless. Both the W124 and W201 have plenty of metal infront of them so don't worry, that other vehicle is going to be more decimated than yours will be. Just pay attention to what the morons around you are doing too. I'm not trying to say that they don't obviously save lives, but making a purchasing decision because a certain vehicle has one or not? Pfft... Sounds like she'd buy the biggest vehicle out there because it has those 230 standard airbags if you ask me, which is certainly a woman thing to do. Just make your own decisions, that's all I can really suggest.

josha37 · #44 02-08-2011, 06:45 PM

I know its a old thread but i have one to throw in. I was driving my 77 k series blazer with 40's on it and it so happened to have rained the night before so it was wet. I got off the interstate one exit early so i would not have to climb a certain hill cause i was having some carb issues and a mid aged woman in a bran new civic slammed on her brakes in front of me. I locked up my brakes and slid into her at around 5-10 ish mph and completly destroyed the trunk tailights and rear fenders... i had to wipe some paint off my bumper but you couldnt even tell. Moral of the story? build'em tall! and dont run 40 inch swampers on the street if avoidable

1977busman · #45 02-08-2011, 07:20 PM

Im 16 and my mom has worried about me driving my airbag-less mercedes since I got my liscense. However I have wrecked an 89 dodge d150 doing about 85mph into a corn field. I got slung around in the car, and had it had air bags they would have deployed. I walked away with a bruised forehead and sore knee (head on steering wheel/ foot hung up in clutch pedal), and I still dont mind not having air bags. However to this day I still feel safer in my 83 300sd than my 92 300d with air bags and my mom 06 accord with side curtain airbags, just because of size.

View Poll Results: How has an airbag or no airbag helped you?
Serious accident, airbag saved life	6	13.95%
Serious accident, no airbag, alive and well	33	76.74%
Serious accident, no airbag, seriously hurt	4	9.30%
Serious accident, airbag no help, seriously injured	0	0%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll