"Ether", use and abuse. *Flame suit on* - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

NC240D76 · #31 11-18-2004, 12:42 AM

The new fast glow kit Phil has on sale at Fastlane made a world of differance in the 76 240d, of course I tested the old glow plugs and it appears I only had one working correctly, two partialy and one not at all and it is only mid 30's here at night.

The 74 240d I just got takes the longest to start that I have seen, aprox 45 second glow three to four times before ignition and the glow plugs look new but something is not right.
Oh well, time to check glow plugs, wiring and valves I guess.

Starting fluid works well for the right occasions, I have used it to start things that have been sitting for years but always as carefully as possible.
The ford tractor will barely start in the summer without it and never in the winter(no glow plugs) but it is very worn.
I have used it on the suburban when the injection pump was failing and wd-40 just was not enough.
The 6.2 in the boat had been sitting for a while before I put it in the boat and needed either to start the first time.
I guess what I am saying is keep it away from ignition sources like glow plugs and it is handy to have around, works real well on the chainsaw/weedeater you have not started snce last season and forgot to put fuel conditioner in.

I also have a friend with a 6.2 in his boat, injection pump is getting very weak and he has to start it on gas every day. He takes a rag soaked in gas and holds it stretched over the intake and does not turn the motor off til he is finished for the day. He claims that holding the rag tight is very important since he has had to fish it out of the intake before

I guess he was lucky it did not start that time!

No I don't use starting fluid on the mercedes but that is probobly the only way we got the 76 started when I first got it and it had been sitting for several years but that is another story.

Uriah · #32 11-15-2005, 08:15 PM

Some of the old 70s KWs (Kenworths) I used to drive had a place under the hood for a can of either, connected to a switch in the dash to aid in cold starting. This was with cranked up 400 Cummins. Then again, we only got a little over 200K out of those engines (not to great for that particular engine), but they were ran VERY hard, all the time.

We also had block heaters we'd plug in every night, but it gets cold out in Utah, so...

tnarg · #33 11-15-2005, 11:32 PM

the previous owner of my '83 300D turbo had trouble starting the car...
going through my restoration work, i had the starter rebuilt. the shaft was bent! the guy who rebuilt my starter thinks it was due to someone trying to start the car using ether. i came to believe this when i noticed the previous owner of my car did not ream out the prechambers causing the glow plugs to overheat/groundout and blowing the 80 amp fuse at the timer relay. their fix was to bridge the 80 amp terminals with a piece of copper house wire. i was horrified after finding all this. now the gp's are new, prechambers reamed and 80 amp fuse in place, not blowing and best of all the timer wasn't fried. incidentally i also found many hex-head screws on the car that were stripped because the mechanic servicing the car for the previous owner used torx bits on them instead of hex bits... need i say more???

Glinko · #34 11-16-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

It dosen't hurt to have an EMERGENCY can of ether to use as a last option, even I keep one in my car. Still, you must have a working brain to use it properly as whunter does.

Yeah when my 240D wouldn't start last winter, my father advised me to squirt almost an entire can of ether directly into the hole inside of the air cleaner.

Ralph69220d · #35 11-16-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

This is the html version of the file http://www.sharecorp.com/msds/8550StartingFluid.pdf.
G o o g l e automatically generates html versions of documents as we crawl the web.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Gt42BI5o9a4J:www.sharecorp.com/msds/8550StartingFluid.pdf+starting+fluid&hl=en

Google is not affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.
These search terms have been highlighted: starting fluid
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 1
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET Share Corporation P.O. Box 245013 Milwaukee, WI 53224
GENERAL INFORMATION NUMBER: (414) 355-4000 EMERGENCY TELEPHONE NUMBER: (800) 776-7192
REVISION DATE: April 9, 2002 CHEMTREC: (800) 424-9300 DATE OF ISSUE: May 2, 2002I - Product IdentificationStarting Fluid PRODUCT CODE: 8550

CHEMICAL FORMULATION:
Pressurized diethyl ether based engine starter.
NFPA HAZARD IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM:
HEALTH: 2
FLAMMABILITY: 4
REACTIVITY: 1
HAZARD RATING:4 - Extreme; 3 - High; 2 - Moderate; 1 - Slight; 0 - InsignificantII - Hazardous IngredientsValues reported as TWA unless noted.

EPA 40 CFR: SUBSTANCEAPPROX %OSHA PELACGIH TLV302 355 372 CAS #
Diethyl Ether 40.0-50.0 400 ppm 400 ppm Y N N 60-29-7
Heptane, related light hydrocarbons 40.0-50.0 400 ppm 400 ppm N N N 142-82-5
Mineral Oil, severely hydrotreated < 1.0 500 ppm N/E N N N 64742-53-6
Carbon Dioxide 4.00-7.00 10,000 ppm 5000 ppm N N N 124-38-9 Key: PEL:
Permissible Exposure Limit TLV: Threshold Limit Value C: Ceiling level STEL:
Short Term Exposure Limit N/A: Not Applicable N/D: Not Determined N/E: Not Established Y: Yes N: No 302: CERCLA List of Hazardous Substances and Reportable Quantities (40 CFR 302.4). 355: SARA TITLE III / List of Extremely Hazardous Substances for Emergency Planning and Notification (40 CFR 355). 372: SARA TITLE III / List of Toxic Chemicals subject to Release Reporting (Community Right to Know) (40 CFR 372). III - Physical Data BOILING POINT (°F): 94, for Diethyl ether SPECIFIC GRAVITY (WATER = 1): 0.70 VAPOR PRESSURE (mm Hg): N/D VOC CONTENT (% by weight): 85.0 – 95.0 VAPOR DENSITY (AIR = 1): 2.5 EVAPORATION RATE (WATER = 1): > 1.0SOLUBILITY IN WATER: Slight pH: N/A APPEARANCE AND ODOR: Pale yellow to clear liquid, strong ethereal odor. IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard DataFLASH POINT (°F): < -56 (TEST METHOD):T.C.C. NFPA 30B Rating: 3 FLAMMABLE LIMITS IN AIR (VOLUME %)UPPER: 48.0 LOWER: 1.8 EXTINGUISHING MEDIA: Foam, carbon dioxide, dry chemical. SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES: Avoid possible accumulations of vapors at floor level, as vapor is heavier than air. Cool fire exposed containers with water fog. Firefighters should be equipped with full protective gear including self-contained breathing apparatus. UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD: Contents under pressure! Exposure to temperatures above 120oF may cause bursting. Extremely flammable.
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PRODUCT NAME: Starting Fluid PRODUCT CODE: 8550 V - Reactivity DataSTABILITY: Unstable explosive peroxides may be formed and concentrate by evaporation to hazardous levels. This process is favored by prolonged storage with exposure to air and light. Product is generally stable in sealed metal containers. INCOMPATIBILITY: Strong acids and oxidizers. CONDITIONS TO AVOID: Excess heat, open flame sparks. HAZARDOUS DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS: Thermal decomposition may produce oxides of carbon. HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION: Will not occur. CONDITIONS TO AVOID: None VI - Health Hazard DataROUTES OF ENTRY INHALATION: X EYE CONTACT:SKIN CONTACT: X INGESTION:INGREDIENTS THAT ARE CONSIDERED BY OSHA, NTP, IARC TO BE SUSPECTED HUMAN CARCINOGENS: None EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSUREIF IN EYES: Irritation. IF ON SKIN: Irritation, defatting and dermatitis with prolonged or repeated exposure. IF SWALLOWED: Gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, cramps, diarrhea. May be harmful or fatal if swallowed. IF INHALED: : Dizziness, strong anesthesia, intoxication, loss of consciousness.EMERGENCY AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES IF IN EYES: Flush eyes and under eyelids with plenty of cool water for at least 15 minutes. If irritation persists, obtain medical attention. IF ON SKIN: Remove contaminated clothing and wash with soap and water. IF SWALLOWED: Contact physician or poison control center immediately. Do not induce vomiting. Proper treatment is dependent upon condition of patient and amount ingested. IF INHALED: Remove person to fresh air. If breathing has stopped, administer artificial respiration. Obtain medical attention. VII - Spill or Leak ProtectionSTEPS TO BE TAKEN IF MATERIAL IS RELEASED OR SPILLED: Ventilate area and remove all sources of ignition. CO2may be used as a precautionary blanket. Soak up material with inert absorbent material and place in a labeled closed container for disposal. WASTE DISPOSAL METHOD: Consult local environmental authorities. Dispose of cans in non-incinerated trash only. VIII - Special Protection InformationRESPIRATORY PROTECTION: Use with adequate ventilation. Do not breathe vapors or mists. If recommended Exposure Limits are exceeded, wear a NIOSH approved respirator, following manufacturer’s recommendations. VENTILATION LOCAL: Recommended MECHANICAL: Not required PROTECTIVE GLOVES: Chemical resistant. EYE PROTECTION: Safety glasses or goggles. OTHER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT: None. PRECAUTIONS TO BE TAKEN IN HANDLING AND STORAGE: Store in a cool, dry place away from heat or open flame. OTHER PRECAUTIONS: Keep out of reach of children. Do not puncture or incinerate container. IX - Transportation Information (ground transportation only)DOT PROPER SHIPPING NAME: Consumer Commodity DOT CLASS: ORM-D DOT ID NUMBER: NoneDOT PACKING GROUP: None The shipping information listed above applies only to non-bulk (< 119 gallons) containers of this product. This product may have more than one proper shipping name depending on packaging, product properties, & mode of shipment. If any alteration of packaging, product, or mode of transportation is further intended, different shipping names and labeling may apply. REVISION DATE: April 9, 2002 Prepared by: PMR DATE OF ISSUE: May 2, 2002 This information contained herein is based on data considered accurate. However, no warranty is expressed or implied regarding the accuracy of this data or the results to be obtained from the use thereof. Share Corporation assumes no responsibility for personal injury or property damage to the vendee, users or third parties caused by the material such vendees or users assume all risks associated with the use of this material.

"unstable explosive peroxides" is one of the key phrases in the msds. Unstable explosive peroxides is what the space shuttle's use in their steering engines. The forum member who said "wd-40" is giving sound advice, if you are bound and determined to use any vapors to help start your engine.

J. R. B. · #36 11-16-2005, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glinko

Yeah when my 240D wouldn't start last winter, my father advised me to squirt almost an entire can of ether directly into the hole inside of the air cleaner.

Is that when your oil filler cap hit you in the head?

signed the Cantankerous, Dogmatic, Ford Pinto

Glinko · #37 11-16-2005, 09:59 AM

No, but it was when I wound up having it towed into town to have the gelled diesel removed from the fuel system. The guy driving the tow truck backed the front end of the car into the side of my garage. Surprisingly enough, the 240 was none worse-for-wear, and the garage took all of the abuse.

whunter · #38 12-02-2005, 08:51 PM

Please read the whole thread, it may save your engine or your life.

MB-Owner-in-ind · #39 12-02-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

These are glow plug engines. If they won't start, find what's wrong and correct it. If the engine isn't worn out and it is a pin type GP engine, a new set of GP's will fix it ninety-five times out of a 100.

These are not farm tractors with no starting aids. In those engines, starting fluid (not ether) is the only choice.

Don't get starting fluid anywhere near a glow plug or manifold heated diesel engine. Just find what's wrong and fix it.

My $0.02,

In my neck of the woods starting fluid and ether are the same thing. Also hard to fix things when you are out in the middle of a parking lot late at night. A can of starting fluid will get you home if used as described in the first post. I have done it several times when it is very cold here and the loop style plugs let me down even though there is nothing wrong with the plugs themselves.

whunter · #40 12-02-2005, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MB-Owner-in-ind

In my neck of the woods starting fluid and ether are the same thing. Also hard to fix things when you are out in the middle of a parking lot late at night. A can of starting fluid will get you home if used as described in the first post. I have done it several times when it is very cold here and the loop style plugs let me down even though there is nothing wrong with the plugs themselves.

The safer answer is to use WD40.

A three second spray of WD40; up the front air intake tube going to your filter, this has far lower risk to the engine.

In sub zero (-6F to -50F) Michigan weather, I have pulled the air filter on many medium/heavy trucks (gas & diesel), give the exterior of air filter a very light coat of WD40, install it quick, and crank, if the fuel is not JELLO it starts easy.

The trick is to keep a small can of WD40 in the car at all times, and squirt before you run the battery down.

I will "NOT" spray anything directly into the intake!!!

#41 12-02-2005, 11:43 PM

I'll share my story for sake of figuring out WD-40..

One night I was trying to leave school, probably about 7pm..dark outside and in the low 40's. I jumped in the 300SD and glowed it...and tried to start.

Crank crank crank and nothing...wasn't catching enough to get buisness done and the battery was draining down fast. (My batt is weak it seems).

Before the battery was totally dead, I tried the wd-40 trick and all it did was SLOW DOWN my engine when I gave the intake tube a little whiff...it was acting like a fire extinguisher.

I tried a few other chems I had in the trunk but it was too late. Wouldn't barely crank over.

Called around, finally got one of dad's friends to come up and give me a jump start...he brough a can of ether and I gave it a little blow in the intake as whunter described. No problems at all and it started right up with a little clatter at the begging.

The problem ended up being that I had 1 glow plug left in working order and the rest were toast.

From now on I always keep a can of ether in the trunk just incase I get in the same situation again. I have since corrected all problems (apart from the battery...the verdict isn't out on that POS yet) but when I am an hour or two from home and I need to be going...nothing will keep me from giving her a little shot of wake up juice to get going rather than have to arrange a tow or something of the sort.

There is a time and place for everything.

WD-40 doesn't seem to cut the cheese anymore? I hear word of no propane in it anymore and it doesn't seem to burn so well when I spray it though a flame..sorta just hisses...

So wd-40 might be out...

Ralph69220d · #42 12-03-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayb79

WD40 will also work and it is not as explosive. I have even used it as a primer to start the mower engine in the spring.

Yes, WD-40 is sufficient and, I believe, not harmful to the engine in the least. I think researching the literature would show the flash temps and flash pressures to be quite close to diesel fuel. I first saw the wd-40 suggestion from tom w and have used it with good result. Plus the lubricating propertie's of wd-40 will not wash down cylinder walls and exposed valve stems, as ether does. So,essentially keeps those parts lubricated until the engine fires.

Mitch H · #43 12-03-2005, 10:14 AM

I still think the safest approach, assuming you have a nearby household electric source, is to aim a blowdryer or heat gun into the air intake.

Meta6981 · #44 12-03-2005, 02:52 PM

THsi thread reminds me of wheni worked on a boat with dual V-12 Cummins. I mean these engines would sind in the boat surrounded by cool water and fed cool fuel. They had hotstarts which heat the engine oil up before starting but most of the time we needed to spray a decent amount of ether into the intake to get those puppies fired off. But when the fired up finally it had the most amazeing rumble to them. Ahhhhh. Waking up at 3 in the morning to those fireing. Strait piped. Oh also to the high RPM screaming jimmy generators. Ahh good times... Good times.

t walgamuth · #45 12-03-2005, 06:21 PM

a substitute for ether.

i use it to start an engine which has lost bleed.

i am glad folks have had success using it for starting. it is no substitute for proper worknig glow plugs. when it is cold and the glows dont work the only way to start them is to get it warm in a garage or pull them to work up a higher rpm which will start them under any circumstances as long as they have fuel and compression.

i have used ether but only a very short whiff outside the air cleaner. with the wd40 you need to spray inside the air cleaner. it wont go thru the filter.

good luck.

tom w