Arctic Advice: Help with Cold Starting - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

diesel don · #1 02-08-2004, 04:39 PM

I need to hear from guys in North Dakota, Alaska, Canada, etc.

Can I gain 'lower temperature starting' by using additives or k1?

Currently, I'm using cheap fuel and need to either:

a. Find better fuel or
b. Begin blending some at each fill up.

Please note that I'm NOT having problems with gelling. Rather, my cars just do not like single digits and lower (parking outside, no block heater plug ins available). Through the search function, I'm up to date on lubrication in various blends, but looking for starting help.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

whunter · #2 02-08-2004, 05:39 PM

Hello Everyone
Is there anyone from Canada, Alaska, Main or Washington State?
Don is asking a very clear question about sub zero fuel mix.
I use one pint of power steering fluid + 1 gallons of Kerosene #1. Per tank; when I am expecting -10F or colder temperatures.
-20F or colder temperature, I use one pint of power steering fluid + 2 gallons of Kerosene.
I never use gasoline in the mix.

Edit note:
I use #1. Diesel as primary fuel; #2. Diesel only when I must.
Ninety percent of the stations around me do not mark their pumps; when I ask, they call the supplier = #2. every time.
Have a great day.

wheelguru · #3 02-08-2004, 08:49 PM

I am in MN, and I don't think I have ever had a fuel related cold problem except once when it was 27 below and my fuel did gel. (this was with my rabbit, before I ever got a benz) Even then, the car started, but I tried to drive it too soon after starting and it gelled up.

I think cranking speed is one of the most important things. Before I had an engine with a block heater I was having trouble starting, and had to put an oil pan heater on because I could not get a block heater in. (it was a stick-on job, and worked great, about $50) The pan heater was not anywhere near enough to heat the engine, but it did get the oil warm and let the car crank fast enough to start. Coldest I ever started with this set-up was about 15 below, after that I had a block heater, which made it even easier.

Two weeks ago, at 15 below I was having a devil of a time starting the car even with the block heater and a magnetic heater on the oil pan. I just could not get it going in the morning, it was as if the air was just too cold to get anything to ignite - only jumper cables and a 1 minute cranking session would get it going. I should add that I know I only have four workng glow plugs. My car has the fast glow conversion and I only have four fast glow plugs, the fifth is a non-working one. I started on an adaptor on friday so that I can install the smaller size pencil type plug, since I have never been able to find the plugs individually, only in four plug upgrade kits for 240s.
Aaaaaanyways, I finally arranged a garage, where I could adjust the valves, which had not been done in about 14 months. They were all a few thousanths loose. I don't know if I goofed last time or if there is a better reason why they would get loose, but they were. I double checked them all as I did it this time and they are all pretty on now, down to a thousandth. For me this has made a huge difference, the car fires right up now (I still plug it in, but only for three hours, and no jumper cables required). Obviously in my case, the valves were shutting early, and I was losing some air volume. If the valves shut early, the volume of air being compressed would be lower, and so temperature would not get as high in the cylinder as it should -thus the harder starting.

I understand that the valves should tighten up as time goes on, but as I understand it, this would lower your compression too. If the valves shut late, the cylinder would be compressing with the valve still open. The volume of air being compressed would be lower in this case too, and so temperature would not get as high in the cylinder as it should -thus the harder starting.

Long story short - it has never been my experience that straight #1 diesel would give you starting problems, but you have to get the engine to crank fast, additionally, if you have not adjusted the valves lately, it might be high time to do so.

Hope I got all this right, I always welcome corrections from more learned people, and there seem to be plenty lurking on this board.

kerry · #4 02-08-2004, 09:00 PM

Wheelguru, Just checked--Fastlane has the conversion kit pencil type plugs with the loop style larger threads, the part # is 0250201044.
Plugs were $15.00 each

http://catalog.peachparts.com/item.wws?sku=W0133-1629394&itempk=88248&mfr=Bosch&weight=0.10

.

diesel don · #5 02-08-2004, 10:08 PM

Whunter:

I received your email on this and am going to be trying it. I wonder however if your mix is intended to prevent gelling or if the #1 actually fires quicker?

Wheelguru:

This is very helpful and I noticed a huge difference with one of mine when I exchanged batteries. However, I'm still looking for the elusive answer.....can anything increase the tendency for it to fire?

Thanks

Don

kerry · #6 02-08-2004, 10:19 PM

Best recipe I know of:
Good battery
Faster heavy duty turbo starter
Synthetic oil
Pencil type plugs instead of loop type
Glow it 2 or 3 times if necessary

If all that fails, and you dont have electricity for a block heater, you're going to have to spring for a Webasto or something similar.

diesel don · #7 02-08-2004, 10:33 PM

Kerry:

Thanks. I use synthetic exclusively in the winter, strong battery, glo plugs, etc.
I have only replaced one starter. Guess I was look for something in the fuel.
I would rather let the car run all winter and buy another one compared to the Webasto heater. Cool idea but lots of cash.

Thanks

Don

dabenz · #8 02-09-2004, 06:35 AM

Even though I'm just from North Dakota.....

Quality fuel and keeping the tank full are the keys for winter fuel. For me, most of my winter starting of small diesels is with ThermoKing (60hp Volvo) engines, which don't need to be plugged in until colder than -30F, if they have synthetic oils, provided they're run nearly daily and have a good battery. The length of the fuel lines is about two car lengths, so this ought to work in a car: start mixing fuel (#2/#1) at 32F. 50/50 by 10F, straight #1 by 0F.

Note I said quality fuel, which means active truck stops and active Cenex.

"Winterized" fuel means #2 with additives added at the station.
Who are you going to trust when your paycheck depends on a running engine?
Active stations and keeping the tank full means less condensation in the tank (yours or the station's).

Once the fuel's good then it's the battery's turn.
You need to glow the snot out of it when it's cold. 5min is not too long when it's -20F. Remember, the hotter the plug gets the lower the current draw on the battery. Now you probably have one chance to start the engine, because a cold and stiff starter is going to take the rest of the juice. So crank it and keep cranking up to 10sec after the engine begins to fire. Slowly step into the foot throttle just before you let go of the starter. Hold the foot throttle until the engine is running freely, because the other cold stuff (transmission, power steering, etc.) is going to put a big load on the engine. And thank your lucky stars if you have a manual transmission.

.

diesel don · #9 02-09-2004, 04:50 PM

dabenz:

This is what I'm looking for. Someone who lives in a climate that is stinkin colder than mine. Thanks for the help along the way.

don

#10 02-09-2004, 10:23 PM

IT WAS MINUS 42 F LAST MONDAY HERE..... SASK CANADA......
I ALWAYS CARRY A SPARE BATTERY IN THE TRUNK AND ON OCASSION HAVE WIRED IN A SECOND BATTERY UNDER THE HOOD..
DO NOT KNOW OF ANYBODY HERE USING ADDITIVES TO AID
STARTING????? GOOD GLOW PLUGS,GOOD BATTERY,BATTERY BLANKETS ETC....... NOTHING ANY DIFFERENT THAN WARMER TEMPS...... BUT DID WARM THE CAR UP EVERY 3 HOURS ,EVEN WITH BLOCKET HEATER PLUGGED IN...... HAD 2 FLAT TIRES IN 2 DAYS AND 1 DEAD BATTERY... WINDCHILLS IN THE MINUS 50 RANGE..... HECK OF A TIME CHANGING TIRES........ THE CAR HAS KEPT RUNNING AND STARTING INSPITE OF WEATHER......87 300TD
NO ONE THINKS TOO MUCH ABOUT COLD STARTING AS THIS HOW OUR WINTERS CAN BE...... EITHER RUNS OR IT DOESNT
.....................................................................................AC

dabenz · #11 02-10-2004, 06:48 AM

whunter: My Etch-A-Sketch is high technology to me, and I still have the the wood framed slateboard that I learned my letters on, which means I haven't learned to post links or quotes yet. If you'll do a search on ATF, fuel additives, or that famous and expensive diesel-in-a-can-called-DieselPurge then you'll find some really humorous anti-ATF postings. I got to the point of live and let live but I'll do what works with my diesels. And pahleeze don't encourage the flame suits. We try to be nice here, and even try to write in complete sentences. Thankfully the writing pros don't critique us (or maybe they grit their teeth with us dirty fingernail types).

whunter · #12 02-10-2004, 07:55 AM

Hello dabenz

My seven year old daughter says that you must be really old "like forty". LOL

Will do the search on ATF, fuel additives soonest.
Thank you and have a great day.