Hardstarting E300 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

slowmoe · #1 01-15-2004, 03:25 PM

Well, it finally happened to me. After all these years of owning diesels and hearing other's misfortunes in the cold while never experiencing any of my own...it happened.

This morning it was 11*F in Allentown, PA. I was traveling overnight on business, checked out of the hotel, hopped into my car, and turned the key. There was a lot of cranking but no combustion.

I heard the relay switch go on and off. The glowplug light went on and off. There was no batttery dummy light on the dash. As far as I can see, there was nothing telling me that something was wrong. After several glows (10-12), she finally fired. Along with the ignition I was received a "check engine electronics" and "lamp out" message.

I have a few questions:

1) Why the trouble if there is no glow or fuel delivery issue (assuming such since no message while attempting to start the car)

2) I have started this car in colder temps this year without issue... why now?

3) Tech at MB (very helpful) said that the engine light may be due to 1) multiple attempts without a start 2) Low voltage from overloaded battery - How do I diagnose

4) How can I read the codes for this car?

5) Is there an underlying electrical issue causing my lights to go - I replace them often - and now this, coincidence?

PS - I run PowerService - Winter blend and use 5W-40 Rotella Sythetic

Thoughts are appreciated... Thanks.

Rick Miley · #2 01-15-2004, 05:41 PM

I think I've read about someone getting a check engine electronics message when a glow plug was bad. If you're really interested, perform a search for "check engine electronics" here. Personally, I would suspect the low voltage condition to trigger it.

As for burning out bulbs, the early W210s are known for that. Don't know if there is a fix, but you might check over in Tech Help.

And please replace that Rotella with a real synthetic. Your 606 deserves it.

slowmoe · #3 01-15-2004, 09:19 PM

For what it is worth, I let my car sit for 10 hours outside today and then tried to start it. Outside temp was 12*F. It started right up just like it always has. I would assume that if there was a bad GP, I would have trouble again.

michakaveli · #4 01-15-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Miley

And please replace that Rotella with a real synthetic. Your 606 deserves it.

Rick you beat me to it...

I've been running D1 in mine and performed a few oil analysis's. My last one yielded 8,086 miles and I still could have gone longer. But by that point I had expired my oil to a safe level. Anyone else get similar results with their OM606's. This was mostly city traveling during the summer in good 'ol CT.

shoe · #5 01-16-2004, 09:01 AM

On the glow plug issue, glow plugs will definitly throw a CEL even when it is starting perfect. You may remember the trouble I had a few months back with a recurring CEL. It was alway's glow plug related. I finally bit the bullet and put a new set of GP's in it and I have not had a CEL since. Now it may still have been a voltage probelm in your case, however I would get ready to purchase a set of GP's. You need a scan tool to check trouble codes and to clear them too. I would try having someone clear the codes (after they tell what the code is) then see what happens, if the same GP code returns then get a set of GP's. I think the code was P3080 Glow Plug circuit.

Now on the oil, I am in Louisiana so I have no need for thin oil. I run Rotella T 15W/40 and go about 5000 miles between oil changes. I have no problems I have not run an oil analsys either so I do not know the condition of the oil at replacement. Th PO had a oil change interval of 3000 miles so between the two of us we have gotten 285000 miles out the engine and it does not use one ounce of oil between changes.

slowmoe · #6 01-16-2004, 09:48 AM

Well, I guess I will now need to respond to the oil jabs. Honestly, I appreciate them. I switched to Rotella 5W on my '92 and it seemed to work fine ie. quieter, easier to start etc... When I purchased the '96 this summer, it seemed only natural to continue to use it being that there was no recomendation from MB for synthetic in this engine and a fare amount of people I spoke with were using dino.

Addtionally, I have had a hard time swallowing the price difference. I drive 40-50K a year and at oil change intervals of 4.5-5K, I am doing oil changes about once a month.

So the price ($13/gal) for Rotella, compared to $22+ for D1 is considerable, many highway miles means less engine stress, and no MB recommendation for sythetic in this engine have lead me to my decision to use Rotella 5w.

That may sound like my mind is really made-up. However, it is not. I have over the past few months grown in my appreciation for the engineereing of the 606. Additionally, I am continually reading how D1 or M1 are superior products. However, I am not convinced that the use of these products will make a significant difference in the longevity/performance of my engine.

I am open to a new perspective. What made you guys chose D1?

slowmoe · #7 01-16-2004, 09:56 AM

Shoe,

Thanks for the insight. I will try to make it over to my indy this afternoon to see if he can read the code. Also, please see my post concerning the oil.

I have read horror stories on GPs breaking during replacement in this engine.

How hard was it for you to replace your GP's?

What kind would you recommend me use?

Did any of your GPs break while removeing?

I would appreciate your quidence if I do need to replace them.

Rick Miley · #8 01-16-2004, 10:32 AM

I did quite a bit of reading about oil when I bought the E300 new in 1999. For me, it came down to this: synthetic oil remains stable at high temperatures where dino oil starts boiling off. When the lighter compounds boil off, they leave sludge behind. Sure, you change the oil and the new batch is supposed to dissolve the sludge, but why not use an oil that prevents the sludge in the first place?

The overriding concern for me was the turbocharger, where the bearings get super hot and the oil is prone to boiling off and "coking," leaving solids behind. But even though you don't have the turbo, your engine can no doubt benefit from the superior stability and cleaning capability of a true synthetic.

(Gotta get some work done. If gsxr doesn't pick up where I left off, then I'll add more later.)

TimFreeh · #9 01-16-2004, 10:33 AM

I agree with your opinion about Rotella synthetic - I don't think switching to M1 or D1 will make a significant difference in engine longevity or cold start operation. Let the oil wars begin.....

I would change your glow plugs. PEH says the either work or they don't but that has NOT been my experience. My plugs seem to degrade over a 4-5 year period and eventually you get to a point where they won't ensure reliable starting in marginal conditions - just like your experiences lately. Resistive heating elements seem to have a definite service life, electric stove coils and baseboard electric heating elements come to mind. They will continue to work after a few years but you can see/feel that they don't produce the same amount of heat they did when they were new.

Of course if you don't ever experience marginal conditions you can continue to use your original plugs for a long, long time. This is why PEH heads to Florida for the winter.... I wish I could emulate his approach to the glow plug problem. I'm not sure he is saving any $$$ but I'm sure he is enjoying himself more than we are right now.

I'm curious as to wether the CEL light is related to a glow plug failure. I suspect it was and that the problem is intermittent.

I have no experience with OM606 engines and have read about the glow plug nightmares associated with RR'ing the plugs. If I were you I would change them myself and be very careful applying torque to the GP elements.

Tim

shoe · #10 01-16-2004, 10:47 AM

Slowmoe, I bought this car from Benzmac and the first thing out of his month was that he never ran synthetic in a diesel (his .02) Now I do not want to get into a discussion on oil types that horse has been beaten to death many times on this forum. I use Rotella T because it is less exspensive, I run Mobile 1 in my truck I like long oil change intervals and it only holds 5 quarts instead of the 2 gallons the car holds.

Now to the GP's, I had no trouble replacing them. I had a couple that seemed to have a little carbon on the tips and I had to coerce them out (gentle pulling and twisting motion) As far as the threads mine just unscrewed nice and easy. I understand that if the car is driven hard or like your mainly highway miles then there is not quite the carbon build up. Some of the pros may correct me on that, but it makes since to me. The intake takes about 15 minutes to remove. Also use the metal intake gasket that Fastlane offers not the paper one from some other suppliers. I think the only GP's available are by Bosch again Fastlane offers them too. I also remeber someone else posting something about reaming out the GP bores, I never could get an explaination on how to do that and It did not seem to make much difference on mine. One note of caution, the first couple of times I started my car after the replacement it started horribly. I followed another members advice to let them soak about 10 seconds after the GP light went off. I did that and they have been fine ever since. Let me know if youneed any thing else.

slowmoe · #11 01-16-2004, 03:23 PM

Thanks for all the info everyone. I just retuned from my indy, Rex Carle, Frazer, PA. He pulled the code - P1617.

In his words, "it's a bull@#*^ code that does'nt mean anything!! A little curious I aked if it was related to GPs or low voltage. He said that he thought that it would be the GP's, and that he gets those all the time - but this is not it. He thinks I probably picked-up a bad tank of diesel. He cleared it and it hasn't returned yet.

Does anyone know what this code is or how I can find out more about it?

If I did get a bad tank of fuel and had a hard time starting because of it, why didn't I get some code related to fuel supply?

psfred · #12 01-16-2004, 04:36 PM

Non winterized fuel can get waxy, and clog both filters and pump, so that no fuel gets injected.

Peter

slowmoe · #13 01-17-2004, 10:11 AM

Well, it has happened again, 22*F this morning and no start. The two dealerships in the area are not familiar with the code (P1617) and just want me to have it towed in.
Can anyone help with this code?

chuck95e300d · #14 01-17-2004, 10:40 AM

Slowmoe,

I have a 95 e300d with the OM606 engine. The exact same thing happened to me last Saturday in Maryland. The wife and I went to a dinner party at 6pm. At 10:30 pm I started the car and it ran really rough and died. It was like 5 degrees outside.

Tried to start the car again...nothing. After trying this many times I could hear the battery getting weak. A friend picked us up and took us home. The next day it was like 30 degrees and the car wouldn't start. Used jumper cables to give it more juice, nothing. I suspected that the fuel had gelled. I added some kerosene (not much) but that didn't help as this was done after the fuel gelled.

Towed the car home. Put it in the heated garage for about 6 hours. Aimed a hairdryer at the fuel filter assembly for 20 minutes. Started right up!

While the car was thawing out I pulled the small screen filter on the fuel filter assembly. It was completedly dry! After heating everything up with the hairdryer I tried again. I was worried that the system had lost its prime...but read in the users manual that it is a self-priming system. Book says to push the accelerator to the floor and crank for no longer than 1 minute. So I cranked it for like 30 seconds and pulled the small fuel filter again. The "reservoir" for lack of a better term was filling up with fuel. Reinstalled the filter and cranked some more. Then it started right up!

The car ran rough. I let it idle for 20minutes. Drove it 2 or 3 miles to the gas station. Car was NOT giving full power. Stopped at a stop light and idle became very rough. Drove on to the gas station and car stalled as I pulled up to fuel pump. Uh oh I thought. I put in maybe 15 gallons of fuel (e300's take 23 gallons). Added a fuel winterized for diesels. Started it up. Still a little rough. Revved it up a couple of times and the idle went back to normal. Drove around town (not far from home) for 15 minutes or so at high and low speeds. It was fine after that.

Next day the car run fine. Temperature was in the 20s. Thursday night the temps dropped back to 5 degrees or so. So I bought some of those "hand warmers" at home depot for $1. I taped two of them to the fuel filter (big filter) with duct tape to keep things somewhat warm. Next day car started and ran fine. Perhaps it was the fuel additive, perhaps it was the handwarmers I don't know!

Anyway, you can't thaw out the fuel lines in 30-40 degree weather (at least not quickly). A heated garage + a hairdryer is your best bet. Check the screen fuel filter...should be wet/full of fuel if everything is normal...otherwise it will be empty. So let us know what you find. Good luck

Finally I read in the book that these cars have a block heater...but that the dealer must install the wiring (couldn't be too hard). Anyone have a part number?

Chuck
Annapolis, MD

chuck95e300d · #15 01-17-2004, 10:48 AM

I re-read the thread and saw that you did get your car started. Hmmm. I don't know about the codes...I don't think my car has a computer.

Re: computer codes. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't. The wife's VW cabrio stalled at a stoplight and the check engine light came on. We took the car in to have it serviced. Code was something like "idle problem." Well gee that helps!
Mechanic didn't have a clue, cleared the codes and that was it.

I think it's a fuel issue.

Re: glow plugs. I think I need to do mine soon. I'm at 123K. Occassionally while driving the glowplug light will come on for 10 seconds and then go away. But other than the 1 cold start issue last weekend it has started just fine, everytime.