Air/water intercooler installed in my 240D - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Old300D · #31 05-24-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

In my upgrade to 2.5" tubes I will need:
75* angle tube- 1
45* angle tube- 1
90* angle tubes- 4

Total length from the turbo outlet to the intake mouth will be about 3.5 feet (Not counting the intercooler).

I fabricated an air-air intercooler in my Datsun 280Z, which has a straight-6 non-crossflow engine. Total length of that system, using 2" tubing out of the turbo to the intercooler and opening the 2" to 3" before the intake, was about 6'. I have no noticeable lag; I attribute that to a restriction-free exhaust and a stock T3 turbine. The car dynoed 313 hp to the wheels.

libbybapa · #32 05-24-2007, 02:36 PM

I've added several air to air intercoolers to several TD engines and have never noticed an increase in lag. That being said, I've also always gone for the non-restrictive exhaust. I live at 7,000 ft of elevation so any extra lag is more than noticeable.

Andrew

#33 05-25-2007, 12:27 AM

I found some interesting info. An intercooled OM617 at 14psi (75*f air and 75% volumetric efficiency) should flow about 400cfm.

Quote:

According to Corky Bell, Maximum Boost pg 61, 304 MPH or 0.4 mach is the point at which airflow meets increased resistance (drag) and flow losses are experienced.

0.4 mach = 304 MPH

2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach

2.25" piping
3.9740625 sq in = 1.98703125 x 2
300 cfm = 123 mph = 0.16 mach
400 cfm = 164 mph = 0.21 mach
500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach
600 cfm = 247 mph = 0.32 mach
700 cfm = 288 mph = 0.37 mach
740 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach

2.5" piping
4.90625 sq in = 2.453125 x 2
300 cfm = 100 mph = 0.13 mach
400 cfm = 133 mph = 0.17 mach
500 cfm = 166 mph = 0.21 mach
600 cfm = 200 mph = 0.26 mach
700 cfm = 233 mph = 0.30 mach
800 cfm = 266 mph = 0.34 mach
900 cfm = 300 mph = 0.39 mach
913 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach

2.75" piping
5.9365625 sq in = 2.96828125 x 2
300 cfm = 82 mph = 0.10 mach
400 cfm = 110 mph = 0.14 mach
500 cfm = 137 mph = 0.17 mach
600 cfm = 165 mph = 0.21 mach
700 cfm = 192 mph = 0.25 mach
800 cfm = 220 mph = 0.28 mach
900 cfm = 248 mph = 0.32 mach
1000 cfm = 275 mph = 0.36 mach
1100 cfm max = 303 mph = 0.40 mach

3.0" piping
7.065 sq in = 3.5325 x 2
300 cfm = 69 mph = 0.09 mach
400 cfm = 92 mph = 0.12 mach
500 cfm = 115 mph = 0.15 mach
600 cfm = 138 mph = 0.18 mach
700 cfm = 162 mph = 0.21 mach
800 cfm = 185 mph = 0.24 mach
900 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
1000 cfm = 231 mph = 0.30 mach
1100 cfm = 254 cfm = 0.33 mach
1200 cfm = 277 mph = 0.36 mach
1300 cfm max= 301 mph = 0.39 mach

Bajaman · #34 05-25-2007, 09:05 AM

Are those numbers at STP? or are they corrected for the speed of sound at 14 psi, 75*F? Just curious.
BB

#35 05-25-2007, 10:36 AM

I believe that is for pure, uncompressed CFM airflow. I don't have the book, although I'll look into getting it soon, so I'm just relaying info.

Old300D · #36 05-25-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

I believe that is for pure, uncompressed CFM airflow. I don't have the book, although I'll look into getting it soon, so I'm just relaying info.

Yeah, I have Corky's book. My 2" piping for the Z is definitely undersized, but I didn't want to modify my intercooler's 2" inlet and outlet. Not optimal, but it sure is fun.

MBdieselFreak · #37 04-09-2008, 08:15 PM

hey were you talking about this 9000 SAAB intercooler???? Well here's a pic of one, and i find that a good size of tubing for intercooler set ups is 2.75" i never seen that back in boston. So i guess its a canadian thing or something, because they have some at my parts supplier. if you have more boost then stock then, you should go with 3" tubing depending on the size of the intercooler too and all the intake related items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by libbybapa

What is considered the "safe" limit for pre-turbine EGTs on these motors?

After looking here and there, I'm feeling like it's time for me to learn to weld aluminum. I've got the steel welding thing down pretty good. I like the Saab 9000 intercooler for it's huge area and it's slim profile. It should leave room for a slimline fan, A/C condenser and radiator and still let the hood close. I just don't care for the Plastic endcaps. I will be running a VNT-25 and don't feel like popping the intercooler. They have all aluminum ones for $700, but for that price I'm inspired to learn al welding and make my own endcaps.

Andrew

raymason · #38 04-12-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

More pictures:

4: Old intake manifold removed
5: Intercooler temporarily in place
6: All installed.

For the turbo did you just unbolt the intake side, turn it so the outlet is up and bolt it back on? Is the intake manifold magnesium or aluminim and what type of welding process did you use?

MTUpower · #39 04-12-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBdieselFreak;

if you have more boost then stock then, you should go with 3" tubing depending on the size of the intercooler too and all the intake related items.

No 3" tubes here... and certainly no lag.

vstech · #40 04-12-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

No 3" tubes here... and certainly no lag.

that is one tight fit.
what did all that come out of? 2.5 T? inquiring minds want to know...
there is no lag, because there is only about 4" of tubing... the others discussing lag and 3" tubing etc have the intercooler up front and piping going to it, yours has the intercooler ontop of the turbo and the cooling air plumbed up front... nice!

bgkast · #41 04-13-2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymason

For the turbo did you just unbolt the intake side, turn it so the outlet is up and bolt it back on? Is the intake manifold magnesium or aluminim and what type of welding process did you use?

Yes, I had to remove the nuts that hold the manifolds on to get enough room to rotate the compressor housing. There are 6 bolts on the back side of the compressor housing that when loosened allow it to rotate.

The intake manifold is cast aluminum and was TIG welded.

Bartman · #42 04-15-2008, 10:44 PM

You should check out the e-bay store Just-intercoolers. They have quit a few intercoolers that could work for under $100.

#43 04-15-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartman

You should check out the e-bay store Just-intercoolers. They have quit a few intercoolers that could work for under $100.

Pressure test them first, cheap A-W intercoolers are cheap for a reason. You don't want any water getting into the intake through a bad weld.

MBdieselFreak · #44 05-25-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Pressure test them first, cheap A-W intercoolers are cheap for a reason. You don't want any water getting into the intake through a bad weld.

I agree a 100% there is nothing more to say! then get a A-A intercooler

bgkast · #45 05-26-2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

that is one tight fit.
what did all that come out of? 2.5 T? inquiring minds want to know...
there is no lag, because there is only about 4" of tubing... the others discussing lag and 3" tubing etc have the intercooler up front and piping going to it, yours has the intercooler ontop of the turbo and the cooling air plumbed up front... nice!

That's a Saab intercooler with some shrouding. I grabbed one of those, and the GM airbox he is using at the yard, but have decided not to intercool my other car. They are available in the parts section.