Why would steam not show the same characteristics as a very fine mist of water when injected pre turbo? My home steamer's mist is not hot further than a few inches from the nozzles- ie it's cool after three inches. I would think with a inverter and a 115 amp alt I could power the steamer and utilize it pre turbo. Thoughts?
I posted the same ? over at WI forum.

You would not gain anywhere near as much power as it takes to make the steam.

The power in water injection comes from the water to steam expansion rate = 1:1,600. Also, the transition from liquid to gas takes (a little) energy. I would think that a vapor mist would work better than steam for this reason. It could not contain any minerals though which could be abrasive.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Incorrect, pure water injection produces no (zero) hp increase. Alcohol (Methanol) must be mixed with the water before there will be any power gain.

Incorrect again, evaporating water takes lots of energy. Thats why it cools the air.

Although I've never had water injection on a diesel, we used it successfully on gas engines w/o methanol and got substantial power gains. I'm pretty sure that it will do the same on a diesel.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

water will make the charge air colder, therefore denser. On a gasser, it will allow you to dump a ton of fuel in and it will also allow you to run higher compression ratio without pre-ignition. Diesels do not have this problem, so it really does nothing more than cool the charge air. If you were to dump a ton of fuel into the mix (which we can't do with the stock IP), it might help to keep temps down. Otherwise, as Forced said, there seems like little benefit... However, water injection combined with propane injection might prove useful...

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99 E300 Turbodiesel 100k

GB is right. Denser air on a gas engine means more air and fuel flow into the cylinders.

Denser air on these mechanical diesels does nothing but help it run cooler. I have used water injection and the difference between no injection and pure water is 0.3HP and 0lb/ft of torque, easily within the error range of the dyno. View it HERE.

Using a 50/50 (by weight) methanol mix at 300cc/min added 3.2hp and boosted torque in the upper RPM range.

It would help the cylinders run cooler- and I think perhaps I'd get a bit less smoke out the tail pipe, which are two good things in my view. The 110 volt steamer (600watts) would take little power from the engine, as it would tax the battery and alt a bit, but certainly not much. WI helps keep the cylinders free of carbon build up also IIRC. There's three things. My real question is the effectiveness of steam. Yes, the cooling of the intake air comes from the water to gas transformation; and thus the conventional wisdom says you cannot get that energy back to cool the air. However, the steam is really no longer steam less than 6 inches from the nozzle, so I fail to see how this applies. Try it- home steamers are just water soakers 4-6 inches from the point of exit. Pre turbo amounts of WI are much less than the post turbo amounts needed for the same effects also. I view it as an overall safety feature if you are running more than stock amounts of fuel, air, and other combustion gases- propane, methanol or alcohol.

Water injection = good if the cylinder temps are getting out of control.

Last week we dynoed 924 HP with Diesel and 949 with a water injection system using pure water. This was a Cummins, not a MBZ though. Not a huge increase, but the system is to save the engine, not add power.

The little MBZ with moderate fueliong increases may see a few ponnies if your lucky, but it may be so small you would hardly notice.

Once you get one cranked up to 500 or so....then the water may add a few more.

We were only getting about 4HP from water, but tweaked it a bit for 25 more!

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1987 300TD ( under resto )
1987 300E SOLD
1987 300D
1993 400E
1997 Dodge/Cummins 3500
2004 E320 Wagon SOLD
2006 BMW M5 Yes, they will go 204 MPH SOLD
2008 BMW 535i SOLD (POS)
2011 BMW X5 Diesel
2013 X5M Tuned to 700+ HP Stupid Fast SOLD
2016 Nissan Titan XD Cummins 5.0!
2004 Audi Quattro ( track car ) AutoX machine
2010 BMW 328i ( sometimes track, but the Audi is faster )


I own maybe 100 t-shirts and they all smell like Diesel fuel and test oil......

Great.... What is needed here is to address the question at hand. If you have information of what you are doing now and how it relates to what I've or others have asked, let's hear it.

My question is if you are willing to go that far, why not get a good pump (~$50) a nozzle ($10) and do it right?

I have not found a $60 system that "does it right" for pre turbo injection. Post turbo is complex- you have to have the proper installation at a suitable post turbo/post IC site. I don't have such a site unless it's gonna be right at the cylinder entrance- which means I'll have five nozzles. Your previous system may have had this issue. It also means I have to inject much more water- over 500 cc according to many, including your estimates. Reading thru many threads over at WI show the complexities that accompany post turbo, and even pre turbo.
The major issue with pre turbo is the water drop size- causing impeller damage. Steam condenses if it has the distance/time and will still be small enough water droplets that it should not cause this damage. That's the theory, and until it's hashed out, the subject will not be closed or fully explored.

Sorry if this is to far after the fact, POWER IS POWER,(P=VI) 600 Watt steamer will require 50 AMPS at 12V to run, so you are overtaxing your alternator for this, if you intend to run it for longer than a pass down the track.

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1984 Euro 300SDC, (4spd standard)
1986 Toyota Landcruiser Diesel HJ60 5spd X2

Gone but not forgotten (some sold, some stripped)
1983 300 SD, 1985 300 SD, 1983 240D, 1986 300 SDL, 1985 300 SDL, 1983 300 D, 1984 300 D, 1985 300SD, 1987 300 SDL, 1983 300 SD, 1985 300 TD Euro, 1983 380SEC, 1990 300 D, 1987 300D, 1982 300D, 1982 300D, 1994 E420, 1987 300 TD, 1987 300 D, 1984 300 D

I don't think a 115 amp alternator is taxed too much by 50 amps... is it?

Depends on the RPM.