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  #1  
Old 09-03-2009, 03:12 PM
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W210 e300td driving w/o intercooler

what are the consenquences of this??? not that am i gonna do it but i heard an indy talking about how turbo will get more fresher colder air this way

could this mess up turbine or cause any problems

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  #2  
Old 09-03-2009, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarec View Post
what are the consenquences of this??? not that am i gonna do it but i heard an indy talking about how turbo will get more fresher colder air this way

could this mess up turbine or cause any problems
Eh? What on earth are you trying to do??

Either you've misunderstood what your indy was telling you, or this indy has no understanding of how a turbocharged engine works.
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  #3  
Old 09-03-2009, 03:49 PM
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I think he may have been referring to running with no air filter rather than the intercooler which lies after the turbo in the induction system.

In any case, it's a very bad idea to run any engine (except a boat ), particularly a diesel engine without an air filter.
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  #4  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarTek View Post
I think he may have been referring to running with no air filter rather than the intercooler which lies after the turbo in the induction system.

In any case, it's a very bad idea to run any engine (except a boat ), particularly a diesel engine without an air filter.
The MAF wouldn't like that either. Some more $$$.
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  #5  
Old 09-03-2009, 11:06 PM
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nope, i ran my kitty('99 e300) w/o a intercooler attached for about 60 miles, it was urgent thing i had to do, but now car is all together assembled

ill post a vid of me rolling in it w front bumper and intercooler off, looks like something out of mad max movie

anyone here can clarify how diesel turbocharging works exactly in details
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2009, 12:36 AM
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Without the IC, your engine will get no boost. You will draw unfiltered air in through the pipe to the IC outlet straight to the engine, so it will run. I don't know if the wastegate will open in this situation, but I suspect so. If not, you could overrev the turbocharger.
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2009, 03:45 AM
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I do expect that it will run without problems or risks, if it will deliver the same performance that remains to be questioned. The reason for the intercooler is to increase the mass of the incoming air, because cold air can contain more oxygen. If in a particular case however an intercoooler has been clodded with oil (fi. from the turbo seals) the effect of the intercooler will decrease, and perhaps in this case removal would lead to an improvement in performance. I do expect that a combination of values of al of the sensors that are read by the ECU could lead to limp. Especiallly with the more newer models.

In my opinion a internal clean-up job or renewal of the intercooler would be the way to improve.


Cheers,
Ingmar
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  #8  
Old 09-04-2009, 05:50 AM
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I was thinking about this just yesterday when I took my intercooler out to reseal it properly, the right join was leaking, might still, a bit...
Is the intercooler really good at cooling air and necesserasy, or a bit of a gamic?
If a free alloy pipe was fitted instead of the intercooler, would that not increase the air flow as there will be only a large open pipe from the turbo to the manifold?
Cheers.
Olivier
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Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
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  #9  
Old 09-04-2009, 06:01 AM
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If you remove the intercooler, the IAT sensor will read a higher temperature and likely lower the peak fueling which in turn, will lower power available.

I've been wanting to try an experiment. I have a scan gauge hooked up in the car displaying IAT. I'd like to make a run up the road and record the temp then take some plastic wrap and cover the intercooler and make the run again to see what the difference is.
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2009, 06:39 AM
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That would be a good test, unfortunatly I don't have your tool, if not I'll give it a go. What I was thinkink is that the intercooler can cool so much air flow in a certain time with the cool air flowing from outside, most of the time I am in city centre, the turbo still kick in, but the intercoolet doesn't cool much as the outside air not flowing fast on it.
Also its like an electric element, if the power of the latest is not enough to heat up a X amount of liquid, its useless, This is why I was wondering with the high air flow and speed flow from the turbo, is the intercooler doing anything in fact?
Cheers.
Olivier.
Oh, do I make any sense?
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E300TD year 2000. RUSTY SOLD
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but run well on WVO
Second Merc died due to corrosion ( NOT rust) How can mercedes get away with that for so long?
Third lasted a month then went away...
Fourth now... Corroded too...
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  #11  
Old 09-04-2009, 07:18 AM
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The intercooler's function is to cool the compressed "boost" air before it enters the intake. All fluids (air is a fluid) heat-up when compressed and cooler air is denser (more oxygen per unit of volume) than warmer air so the theory is if you can lower the temperature of the pressurized air, back to near ambient temps it will produce more power when mixed with the fuel. Cooling the intake air probably also help lower exhaust gas temps too.

As others have said, if you disconnect the intercooler (and don't connect the boost pipe directly to the intake) then you will get no boost and be able to draw unfiltered air into the intake...both bad things.

If, however, you were able to bypass the intercooler and connect the turbo's boost pipe directly to the intake all you would have is a car with boost that wasn't cooled and would not be as powerful and efficient as it is with the intercooler. You might also cause it to run hotter than it was designed to but since most of us don't have a way to monitor EGT I don't know how we would know if we did any damage or not.

Here is an article that explains it with numbers:

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_109789/printArticle.html
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Last edited by nhdoc; 09-04-2009 at 07:42 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2009, 07:43 AM
300 TD running on Veggie
 
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Even stronger...if the current intercooler is dirty/leaking, it would probably imply that having a bypass could improve the current situation. Of course a new intercooler combined with cleaning all of the relavant "plumbing".. is the best solution.

Cheers,
Ingmar
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  #13  
Old 09-04-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarTek View Post
If you remove the intercooler, the IAT sensor will read a higher temperature and likely lower the peak fueling which in turn, will lower power available.

I've been wanting to try an experiment. I have a scan gauge hooked up in the car displaying IAT. I'd like to make a run up the road and record the temp then take some plastic wrap and cover the intercooler and make the run again to see what the difference is.
Evan,

Do you know where the IAT sensor is located? Is it measuring the temp of the air post-boost and intercooler right at the intake or upstream of that? I will check my scangauge and see what kind of IAT's I read - I must admit I never used that feature.
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2009, 08:12 AM
300 TD running on Veggie
 
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This is a pic. It is located somewhere in the tube that comes from the intercooler to the inlet manifold. The sodding clips are quite prone to breakoff.

Cheers,
Ingmar
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W210 e300td driving w/o intercooler-2009-07-15_130252.jpg  
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  #15  
Old 09-04-2009, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdoc View Post
Evan,

Do you know where the IAT sensor is located? Is it measuring the temp of the air post-boost and intercooler right at the intake or upstream of that? I will check my scangauge and see what kind of IAT's I read - I must admit I never used that feature.
It's on the front of the up-pipe into the EGR "mixing" chamber. You can see it when you look down past the anti-lock brake unit toward the bottom of the intake.

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