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  #1  
Old 08-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Mechanical Hyphochondriac
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 539
Upgrade 722.3 transmission with 722.6 parts - Help?

My transmission (722.317) in my 1987 300TDT Wagon is up for a rebuild...I would like to do one of two things:

1. Find a good 722.317 core and rebuild, or have rebuilt with 722.6 internals to support more torque once I upgrade my IP and Turbo.

2. Find a good/low mileage 722.317 and swap now and rebuild my current transmission. I suppose this is preferable because it would give me time to do thorough research. Also, I have not done anything to modify engine yet so there is no need for a transmission with increased torque load.

Here you can see the rating for the different transmissions:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/722-automatic-transmission-information-t-460.html

I could use any and all information on this. I "heard" that one can use 722.6 parts in a 722.3 but I am not sure. I would also like to change my first gear to that out of a newer model. Apparently it provides better performance off of the line.

Any help would be great!

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1987 300TDT - 195,000 (Original #14 head)
1993 190E 2.3 - 105,000
1981 300D - 250,000
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  #2  
Old 08-18-2010, 12:52 PM
Mechanical Hyphochondriac
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 539
Here is what I found at "Mersuforum":

http://www.mersuforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91477
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1987 300TDT - 195,000 (Original #14 head)
1993 190E 2.3 - 105,000
1981 300D - 250,000
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  #3  
Old 08-18-2010, 03:50 PM
Alastair's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South Wales U.K.
Posts: 1,064
I'm looking for the same info!

I have a 722.608 from E300TD (which also I sourced the OM.606 from) but No 722.3 --only two or three tired 722.2 --for OM.617

This trans is Huge.--Front-Pump is held by around 20 odd bolts! Personally, I doubt that any internal parts would be compatable. Its diameter on the main body is much larger than the earlier 722.xx I have around here!

--Was it not re-designed from the ground up as an 'elect'. box?

Unfortunately I can find little info. There was a guy on Hevosovoima who reckoned it was possible to use 722.6 with its original controller if certain wires were re-routed to somewhere--which he couldnt remember, although he did reckon the 722.6 is 'bomb-proof' for power...

--But, from what Ive read about the 722.6 and all its foibles, its a hideous transmission for faults, so I really dont want to go there!

--At least in US you have the 300TDT W124 722.3 trans, something that never came here.....

So, closest I can get, --which is still 'weaker' than your 300TDT box for me would be one from a E250TD, Pre-Elect. box, --I'm assumimg a 722.3 of some description.

I'm wondering about the BIG V8 Gasser boxes, What was in those?--will they fit onto 603 or 606?--If not can we take all the guts from them?

--One thing I have found out is that the 722.3 and 722.4 use much the same 'guts', valve-block and governor are different, but the clutch-packs and gearing etc is the same parts...

--Ive got the 'service-manuals' for these if you need 'em....

Many years ago, I uprated an old Borg-Warner 35 transmission--with that, it was really quite easy, you remove a spacer from the clutches and add more clutch-plates, in each of the two clutches!--Simple--But I doubt the M.B. trans will be as easy!--Ive never opened an M.B. Trans --Yet--!

This is summit I think we'll need to learn together!

There are places in Finland that wil supply fully modded box. Siekkenen is one and I can't recall the other--I would Hate to think the cost! Ive asked about exactly What they do, but the answers are shall we say, Vague....!

Here is Finnish forum Ive posted questions on transmissions etc...

http://www.hevosvoima.com/foorumi/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=122

I'm really hoping we can find answer, I 'Could' go Manual trans, But half of the niceness of M.B. is that its Auto! --It would spoil the car to make it manual IMHO...
(In fact it would be much easier to go manual with the trans from W201 190 'Cosworth' 2.3/2.6 16V)

I reckon what we need is an Auto Trans Expert round here!
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http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...0TDnoplate.jpg

Alastair AKA H.C.II South Wales, U.K. based member

W123, 1985 300TD Wagon, 256K,
-Most recent M.B. purchase, Cost-a-plenty, Gulps BioDiesel extravagantly, and I love it like an old dog.

W114, 1975 280E Custard Yellow,
-Great above decks needs chassis welding--Really will do it this year....
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  #4  
Old 08-18-2010, 07:54 PM
compress ignite's Avatar
Drone aspiring to Serfdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 32(degrees) North by 81(degrees) West
Posts: 5,554
Gear Crunchers

Alastair,

Oveah heah, The 722.3XX is viewed as being much more Stout than the 722.4XX
(The MAX Torque ratings chart support common views.)
[And MB's Placement of the 722.4XX in the "Lesser" Torgue producing models
bears that observation out.I.E.the 6 cylinder OM603 Turbodiesels got the 722.3
and the 5 cylinder OM602 Turbodiesels got the 722.4]

jhodg5ck rebuilds Tranny's in his shop using kevlar faced friction discs.

You need to talk to GSXR about the Gasser/Petrol Trannys in the 500 series
V-8 and V-12 cars.He's stated that you could build a stronger Tranny using
the 500 series chassis Tranny parts,but why bother...
just get a nice, not abused 500 Tranny and rebuild it?

The 722.5XX series transmissions are "Throw Aways."

A few have transplanted the 722.6XX Trannys along with all it's Electronic
controls and been successful.And their Mechanical abilities are Bulletproof.

All of this is reconfirmed by the answers johnbobshinigin got on the "M" forum.

I would love to know what's bolted up to engine in the Video Below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ54sjAjNdg
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Last edited by compress ignite; 08-18-2010 at 08:40 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2010, 04:19 AM
Marvelicious's Avatar
Naturally Aggravated
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NW OR
Posts: 265
Well, I'm far from an expert, but I do understand the basic theory in auto transmissions. To handle more torque, you can do two main things, raise the pressure of the fluid, and add more clutch packs.

As far as the fluid goes, some boxes you can raise the overall pressure, and everything follows suit and works fine, others you have to raise each individual drive section separately, because an overall change will mess with shifting, etc... I suspect that these will fall under that category

As for more clutch packs, its probably a matter of ripping one open and looking. The 722.6 packs might be the same dimensions except thinner, allowing room for more packs. Its going to be hard to determine without ripping one open and looking. There might be other internals that swap, but the clutch packs is going to be the biggie here.

PS I just read how old this thread is. Traffic is slow in the diesel performance section eh... Well, my reasoning still stands...

PPS I just started reading through that other thread. So 3mm plates are available, and if ours came with 5mm stock, a little swapping should be possible.
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2010, 11:15 AM
babymog's Avatar
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northeast Indiana
Posts: 10,767
Other things are also important, if not up to the task the bearings, gears, and shafts will need to be upgraded. Also, if for more RPM, the bearings are all designed around the maximum spec operating RPM, many up-rated engines including diesels are turned up in RPM.
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:11 PM
Marvelicious's Avatar
Naturally Aggravated
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NW OR
Posts: 265
True, and these transmission might not be the best choice for really big power - If you sent your IP to myna, you probably need a different transmission to keep up with that potential. I'm not sure what the limits on the rest of the transmission are, but the clutch packs wind up slipping from stock power... We should be able to upgrade that in the course of a "heavy duty rebuild" without breaking the bank.
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  #8  
Old 10-05-2010, 12:26 PM
Mechanical Hyphochondriac
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 539
From Jonathan (jhodg5ck) at Blue Ridge Mercedes in GA:

The 722.3 is the strongest transmission for a W124...it is the same used in other V12 chassis. My 1987 is a 722.317 and he would put parts from another 722.3??. He said he can rebuild with kevlar friction disc and new internals from another trans model which will allow the room for more packs.

From what I gathered, he does this a lot for guys on the track. So down the road, I will give him a visit!
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1987 300TDT - 195,000 (Original #14 head)
1993 190E 2.3 - 105,000
1981 300D - 250,000
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2010, 05:22 PM
babymog's Avatar
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Location: Northeast Indiana
Posts: 10,767
I might be giving him a trans to upgrade also, do you know of any references for his work?
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2010, 07:07 PM
Mechanical Hyphochondriac
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 539
No, other than reading about him on here. He has a very good reputation. I remember reading a post about someone with a 500e that had it in and out of shops that could figure the issue out so he took it to Jonathan, which was a very long distance away, and he resolved it. He also likes the cars, which means a lot too. I probably won't get mine upgraded until I get a modded pump. I wound up emailing him and he told me to call. Very informative! He is using a synthetic oil as well. Shoot him and e-mail and see!
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1987 300TDT - 195,000 (Original #14 head)
1993 190E 2.3 - 105,000
1981 300D - 250,000
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  #11  
Old 03-02-2011, 01:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5
Would anyone have a suggestion where I can get the (tail piece) extension for a 722.4? My trans mount was damaged when the driveshaft went.

Thanks

Adrian
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2012, 01:28 AM
SpecialDelivery's Avatar
SWFL Benz Clubbin...
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 393
Oh how I'd love to find a 5 speed mod, or replacement for my 722.303

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1985 300CD Silver/Blue H&R Suspension (Sold, still cryin over that)
1982 300SD Silver/Blue '85 OM617 (Sold)
1982 300D - Blue/Blue (Sold)
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