Nor Cal shop to tune ips found!
 

So i found a shop that has done a MB diesel pump before and quoted me 1k labor to slap in elements and tune the pump on the bench and then have me test it in a car then bring it back for retuning.

Now what to use M or MW ....floyds or hollys?


How do we keep this under 2k guys? These people said they had a guy spend 4K in pump modding for his 300D and they said they gave him TOO much power as his motor lasted only one month then blew!

Now i know as well as you all that the guy prob didnt do anything else to the car and it might have had 350k on it and been on its last leg.

So what do you think?

I got gsxr's done for $700 plus soft parts and shipping.

This is for M pumps only!

He had both pumps though. If you have to order the 6mm elements and delivery valves new they are about $700. Be aware though the last time we checked stock on 6mm elements and DV's they were on backorder from Bosch. They would have to manufacture more and I did not get a lead time. If you order the new parts labor goes down to $600 (don't have to disassemble and check).

Well, it sounds right of the bat that he may not be THAT knowledgeble to have spent that much AND blown an engine. Obviously I am all about finding a stateside source but maybe we can get more info and/or have him post on the board. The knowledge here will help him get it done properly and without spending that much most likely.

This guy that supposed had it done didnt know that much just had it done to his dodge truck so had the shop do it to his N/A 617.

I dont know what elements to use ......i have both M and MW pumps laying around in great shape and i have a donor 603 M pump from an 87 300d.


I just want 160-200hp at the rear wheels.

This shop sounds like they can do that as the guy i talked to said they had multiple bosch machine so they can fine tune it. They said they would set it how they think and then have me test in in the car and i can bring it back for more tuning.

I basically want a pump for just under 2k done.

This guys ONLY do diesel injection tuning so i think they are my best bet and 1k for labor is the going rate if not more.

I was going to have the back east do mine but no one has heard from him and i fear turn around would be like a year or more.

Can I ask a daft question?

(I sure can)

But what on earth are they planning to do to your IP pump - what is actually involved in this tuning process?

Besides using a flow bench and replacing worn parts i dont know?

I explained the myna pumps and that we should be able to do it here in the states.

The guy who spent 4k on his pump though wanted the most power he could get. They gave him that and his car blew. Now im just looking to get a taste of that kind of power.........with good idle and mileage. I think 160hp on a healthy 617 turbo motor will be fine in the long run as they actually did over build these motors.

If these people have done as many P7100 pumps for old dodge trucks then our pumps should be a piece of cake.

Thats enough for them to trust they will play with the pump to make it wright.

Also i have enough motors to test with :)

What's the name of this shop? For your HP requirement, it's a toss up of which pump to use. But If it was mine, I'd do the MW with the 7mm Holly.

With that said, winmutt may have a line on Chinese 8mm elements for $11.50 each that a few of us are interested in a group buy at SuperTurboDiesel if you want to take a chance on them.


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im game.... what do you think of 603 elements? like whats the size difference?

$1,057.50 for a modded pump doesnt should half bad LOL

Vally Fuel injection in woodland ca

You'll need to contact winmutt or post over at STD to tell him your in.


603 elements are 5.5mm.





.

Hi,

I wonder what that shop did to the pump to kill an engine.
I doubt they used larger than or even the 7mm elements.
Then the result must have been a smoking monster or simply an over rpm tuning.
Unless the customer used a big turbo and killed the engine by stupidly pressing the pedal > red line I can't believe such a pump can develop the hp to blow the engine.

Maxing out a stock pump is one thing but it needs more to get an element modified pump running well.
I tried with 5 pumps in different shops and only one is satisfying me.
From my experience: give the guys a chance to prove their knowledge.
Or invest in sending a pump to Europe and get it done.
I wasted too much time (and money) until I got "my pump" finally.
Time and money that could go into turbo, intercooler ,..

Just my opinion.

Tom

The guy said it was 4 years ago and it was a NA NON turbo 300D. Not sure what size elements were done to it but for 4k they must have done all that could be done. His quote for me was 1k for labor so for another 3k in parts he must have had alot done.

Last year I was quoted about 1600 USD + Shipping for Myna to do a M pump with custom ALDA.

So talked to the shop in nor cal and he is going to get back to me on which pump he thinks will be the easiest to mod. So far he doesnt like the fact the MW pump has the (rw) governor as he said its hard to fine tune whatever that means.

That means he does not have an understanding of its operation beyond Bosch training. In reality that makes sense given the shops only do inside the box, "by the book" work.

Have him put in the new elements and balance them at the standard rack positions, forgetting about the out put quantity. Have him set the idle out put as he normally wood, (this will require the Idle governor to be set at a different position, but all that matters is the out put at a given pump RPM). Idle stability may be an issue depending on how he sets the Idle Governor, but I can walk you through how to get it right.

Then have him set the Rack Limiter to out say 25% more fuel that stock ( you can always increase it), and set the torque control and high speed settings as he normally wood, (basically he looks for the rack to move at a certain RPM).

This would give you a stock governor that is very drivable and will put out 25% more fuel at full throttle until the governor starts backing it off. Your rev limiter max speed may end up being higher as well.

At this point, depending on your turbo and such, you may be very happy, but if you want it to pull harder longer, then that is where the knowledge comes in to play. I have a couple of different torque control springs that I have used to shape the fueling curve how I wanted it depending on the application.

If he sets the governor up by the book, disregarding the max quantity amount, then he should be fine, and you will be at a standard starting point instead of god knows what settings.

For $1000.00 plus parts I am very tempted to get in the game, but I am very busy now and still do not have an engine for the Dyno.

For M pumps I personally made my plan:

7.5mm Floyd elements, delivery valves and 500 EUR for labour + shipping.
The result is a perfectly running pump with external full load adjustment.
No issues with strange governor behaviour etc.
The shop is PP D from Finland and I can not imagine what can be better on a Mynä pump.

Element+delivery valve is 68 EUR.

A pump with larger elements for me is the basic step into tuning.
From the platform of stock engine with smokeless extra power and better economy you are prepared for everything that might come in future.
Making a compromise with the pump is not worth the bucks you might save.

Tom

Ok great news ..... My injection shop here in Northern Ca said he wants to mod the MW pump over the M pump because he said its better to fine tune but the governor is a ***** compared to the M pump governor.


So he is seeing how much he can get the elements for and if its too much he will use the chinese ones we can supply. So at the moment im holding off on the group buy. If his cost is too much then we can all talk about me taking the plunge on ordering a small batch for my self so we know it is safe to do the group buy.


He is going to get back to me with prices and how much time everything will take.

So far it 1k plus elements. I told him others might want more but i want a good 200rwhp. He said not a problem so everyone cross their fingers i should have exact prices next week then after that i will send him my pump and i have the extra cash things should move faster then we have seen else where.


CROSS THOSE FINGERS!

See the thing is i trust that this guy knows what he is doing as they normally mod the IDI older dodge pumps. Now think about it guys....they are modding based on bosch only specs they are doing playing and they are doing different combos on parts and tuning.


Now give them a SIMILAR pump and they should be able to figure it out if they are worth a **** right?

Be Careful about the Quote!!!
 

I want to know what you are getting for a 1K in Labor only. This seems high. I had my pump rebuilt for my Dodge and it was only 450 in labor it was the parts that got expensive. Can you ask him why so much? Tear down should not be more than 2hrs rebuild max 4 hrs and bench test/dyno 2 more hours, were talking 8hrs. This is unless he is going to mic every piece and then you find alot more time envolved and alot more in parts required. These pumps are not new so they will be worn...its a fact of life!
Be careful about this quote he should have a high and a low quote for you for the labor. His quote sounds more like it would be in the middle, if he did not give you a low quote you will pay what he has actually quoted you and wont bother to tell you it didnt take that much time. :confused::confused::confused:

I've got a shop here in SF (south florida) that will "rebuild" a M or MW pump with what ever elements you supply and make it idle smoothly and put out the power the elements give via increased fuel output. Cost is about a grand, plus the parts you supply. I said this over at STD and got few interested parties- GSXR IIRC said it was overpriced. I already have a Myna pump on my car with a undersized (stock) turbo- so I don't need the service right now, but I've dealt with them in the past in search of greater power- plus SF is the home of monster diesels in yachts and sportfish boats- so they know IP and power.

These guys mod big diesel trucks and tractors, our pumps are a little more fine tuned as with have sedan/coupes/wagons. Our pump is close to a P7100 but at the same time light years apart.

1k was the low realistic quote he gave me. He is still seeing if he can get better elements then these chinese ones we are temped with.


Myna only does M pump and they charge more then this shop who will do the mw.

I am just being a test dummy. If i have to go back to this shop after the pump is done i wont be shocked as he even stated i might have to bring it back to get it perfect. He sounds like he think he can give me more quality power then i will ever use. Lets find out shall we?

What HP at the rear wheels do you have and how turned up is your pump? what stage did you get from myna they said they have 3 different tunings they offer for the M pump.

there is a 10mm MW pump already, done by Pacific Fuel Injection in SF..
Maybe over on STD can't remember who's pump it is.
Why don't you start from there?
Mynä don't do MWs because they just don't have suitable elements...

Tom

Is the guy who had them put in on STD? As recall there wasnt much info on how his cars acts...... i.e. dyno results and what not.

Do any of you good people know where I can find a test procedure or a report of a test procedure for an injector pump test? I've been asking newbie questions here:-

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/296416-diesel-injector-pump-bench-testing-questions.html

Garrett, Yesterday I found Diesel Power Systems in Bakersfield, CA is willing to install and calibrate the MW Chinese 8mm elements for $400-$500 provided we do a group purchase of the service. This price will include disassembly and cleaning of IP, new gaskets, installation of 8mm Chinese elements and calibration. Addition cost if some hard parts (i.e. bearings, etc) are worn and need replacement. We will need to send them a MW Pump and the 8mm Chinese elements.

They can also get genuine Bosch 8mm for $250-$300 per element and will have their standard warranty. Where else they cannot offer any warranty with the non-Bosch stuff.

More information at the 8mm element thread over at superturbodiesel.


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ok coz i sold this wagon yesterday so i have the cash to do this LOL

Myna Quote
 

I am interested in upgrading my IP, and I contacted MYNA. I got a quote which looks lower than what you got. Not sure if the value of the EURO or USD has anything to do with the new, lower price. The only problem is getting a core pump and the costs of sending it overseas, and then paying for shipping to get it back. This is what they had to say a few weeks ago.

"As the M pump is originally from NA engine it does not have LDA. Custom
made LDA costs 200€. The LDA basicly limits the fuel delivery in
function of boost pressure and thus prevents black smoke before the
boost pressure rises.
So the total cost for the M pump rebuild would be 1050-1100€.
Shipping is around 120€."

Address is:
Mynä-Diesel Oy
Järvenkalliontie 9 (street address)
23100 Mynämäki (postal code and city)
Finland

-Antti

I have been reading through several threads both on this forum and on Superturbodiesel. I am not getting the answers i am looking for from either place. It doesn't seem that there is a quality job that can be done for less than what MYNA is asking. Even a few people have questioned MYNA's ability to provide a pump that is properly done. There is one thread on STD where a gentleman has put a supercharger and large turbo on a w126. The project is amazing! A work of art really. He sent his pump to someone back east who built a proper pump with 7mm elements as i recall. But the guy took forever to do the pump and has apparently fallen off the planet. I would be nice to get some straight answers about this topic rather than all of this back and fourth of who is right and wrong. I say use your guy and let us know what the results are. If they are great and cheaper than MYNA I am game. As for now MYNA is too expensive. My car is stuck at stock hp until further notice.

basically the calculation for the 7.5mm elements is:

60 EUR/element + 8 EUR/delivery valve

I personally got a perfect pump within almost shipping time (< 3 days in the shop) and additionally 500 EUR from PP D in Finland, including external adjustment possibility.
This was a 6 cyl. M-turbo pump.

The result is a plug and run IP without any idle or whatever issues that gives good power (not dynod yet) without smoke and without turbo lag.
The rest of the engine is still stock.
Economy is better by approx. 20% even when using the extra power.

Tom

What about MW pump from a 617? Seems like it would be hard to find an M pump in the states ... dont see many NA 617's floating around anymore.

I also made MW elements with 6.5mm.
But MWs are rare over here and the number of people asking for MW was poor.
On top the MW elements are made of used 5.5mm with a new plunger and matched into the cylinder.
Way more machine hours resulted in 75 EUR/element.
The last set I sold in November but the buyer gave it back as his shop told him that the elements were used...
If you want big MW elements follow he 10mm threat or contact OM616 member.

Tom

This is why I am going with Myna. The prices for the labor on bench testing makes ZERO sense to me. There is an STD member who swapped the elements out himself. Now that I have 2 dead spare IP's I plan on giving it a spin, particularly if I can make my own test bench, which seems fairly trivial.

The group buy on the bakerfield shop seems way better than this guy here in nor cal. He seems way too money hungery so im going with Deliveryvalve's guy in bakersfield.

Are you going to try the MW or the M pump?