Diesel injector pump bench testing questions - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #1 03-27-2011, 01:01 PM

G'day folks,

I've been following a thread on the diesel performance tuning forum concerning injector pump modifications:-

Nor Cal shop to tune ips found!

In this thread there is talk about bench testing an injector pump.

Simply speaking I would like to know what a bench tester would do: What tests would be performed?

I guess you could measure the following:-

Shaft input speed
Position of the input shaft
Pressure of fuel sent to an individual injector
Flow of fuel sent to an individual injector
Flow of fuel through the (whole) injector pump

Is this essentially what happens?

I found these links for injector pump test bench manufacturers - none of these sites have an educational explanation of what their products actually do - it is all sales speak (you know talking about fulfillment):-

http://www.dieseltester.com/company/company.htm
http://www.gencomachines.com/product.html
http://www.fiptestbenches.com/crdi-injector-pump-testers.html

Stretch · #2 03-27-2011, 03:54 PM

A bit more searching... and I've come up with these threads that indicate what could be done:-

Injection pump bench test?

What does Myna really do to a IP?

But no "how stuff works" type of explanations.

Diesel911 · #3 03-27-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

G'day folks,

I've been following a thread on the diesel performance tuning forum concerning injector pump modifications:-

Nor Cal shop to tune ips found!

In this thread there is talk about bench testing an injector pump.

Simply speaking I would like to know what a bench tester would do: What tests would be performed?

I guess you could measure the following:-

Shaft input speed
Position of the input shaft
Pressure of fuel sent to an individual injector
Flow of fuel sent to an individual injector
Flow of fuel through the (whole) injector pump

Is this essentially what happens?

I found these links for injector pump test bench manufacturers - none of these sites have an educational explanation of what their products actually do - it is all sales speak (you know talking about fulfillment):-

http://www.dieseltester.com/company/company.htm
http://www.gencomachines.com/product.html
http://www.fiptestbenches.com/crdi-injector-pump-testers.html

I can give a simple explanation as to what the Calibration Stand/Test Bench does.

The Calibration stand turns the IP and has a very accurate tachometer.
The Fuel coming out of each element is measured. On the newer test stands this is done with Flow Meters. On the older test stands you set a timer X number of strokes of the Fuel Injection pump and you pressed a button and the Fuel Flowed into Glass Graduates. When the stroke setting was done the Fuel to the Graduates is cut off and you waited a bit for all the Fuel to settle before you looked at the Graduates (one per cylinder).
On the basis of the Flow or cc measurement you changed the Fuel Quantity that that each Element put out until set to specs.

The IP is run at various speeds that are called for on the spec sheet and various parts of the pump are set.

There could also be other things like a Vacuum Pump, Lube Oil Pump, and Fuel Transfer Pump built into the Calibration Test Stand.

ON the drive end of the Test Stand there is a Degree Wheel. The Degree Wheel can be used to time the Elements to the Camshaft. However, if you have the set-up for that it can also be done on a regular Work Bench.

None of the above sounds like very much of a big deal but they are extremely heavy duty. The Electric Motor big and heavy. The Drive on the Stand and the Rails/Ways that the Fuel Injection Pump Adapters mount on need to be properly centered
.
Due to the Emission Regulations the Tachometer and now a days the Flow Meter need to be very accurate or your shop will not be certified.
Whatever controls the speed of the Motor/Drive of the Test Stand must also be very heavy duty.

Diesel911 · #4 03-27-2011, 05:11 PM

Not part of the Test Stand but needed are Dial Indicators and other adapters and measureing tools.

The though issue is that it is not easy to find the Factory Specs for the Fuel injection Pumps. The specs are only supposed to be given to certified shops by the company that certified them for their Fuel Injection Products.

Diesel911 · #5 03-27-2011, 05:29 PM

The Cummins PT pump is an entirely different type of pump where the Injectors in the Engine Supply the high pressure of Injection.
That type of test stand is only for the Cummins PT System. PT= Pressure Timed.

In the pic below is the same as the Test Stand I spent 5 years operating, Made in the US by Bacarrach.

On the Far left you see part of the test stand for Cummins PT Pumps.

A couple of our members joinly own one of those stands; on the East Coast. However, they needed to fix it.
I do not know if they ever got it going or not.
The Bacarrach company is on the East Cost so they might have been albe to get parts and spec more easily.

I suggested to them that the find a Trade School that had Diesel Fuel Injection Classes as Schools have access to the Fuel Injection Specs. if the actually do callibration at the School.

Stretch · #6 03-28-2011, 10:39 AM

Thanks for that Diesel911 - so it is mainly "just" flow then... interesting... interesting... interesting...

whunter · #7 03-28-2011, 10:51 AM

Rebuilding injection pump
Rebuilding injection pump

.

Stretch · #8 03-28-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Rebuilding injection pump
Rebuilding injection pump
.

Thanks - there's some serious kit in those pictures.

Does anyone have a copy of the test sheets Diesel911 has been talking about?

A copy of one of those would be really good to see - for others too not just for my twisted curiosity - as it would give an impression of the work involved for the hundreds if not thousands of dollars it costs to have an injection pump tuned.

Diesel911 · #9 03-28-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Thanks - there's some serious kit in those pictures.

Does anyone have a copy of the test sheets Diesel911 has been talking about?

A copy of one of those would be really good to see - for others too not just for my twisted curiosity - as it would give an impression of the work involved for the hundreds if not thousands of dollars it costs to have an injection pump tuned.

Find out what Bar the Guys at the local Bosch certified Fuel Injection Shop hang out; buy some Drinks and make some Friends.

The older Film Fisch used to show up on eBay but I have not seen them for several years.

Another way to do it is to buy a rebuilt Fuel Injection Pump and run that on the Test Stand and write down the specs. However, that would not tell you the min and max limits.

whunter · #10 03-28-2011, 01:20 PM

This short video shows how its possible to perform a basic injector pump calibration at home using a small benchtop lathe to drive the pump. It doesn't show the "phasing" portion of the setup, which is done with a degree wheel and pointer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POlOSBVIXe8

************************************
Testing a Bosch P series inline injection pump (Diesel Engines)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qty6ZK8o6U8&feature=related

*********************************

Look at the machine specs and screen shots of the control panel.

diesel injection pump test report
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&biw=1276&bih=859&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=diesel+injection+pump+test+report&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

diesel injection pump test specification
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&nfpr=1&q=diesel+injection+pump+test+specification&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&wrapid=tlif130133179421810&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1276&bih=859

diesel injection pump test data
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&biw=1276&bih=859&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=diesel+injection+pump+test+data&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&biw=1276&bih=859&tbs=isch:1&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&q=bosch%20injection%20pump%20test

Stretch · #11 03-28-2011, 01:58 PM

Thanks that first video is great - I particularly like the gucci little hobbs meter and the dust mask hanging on the air intake pipe.

I had a look on the tafe website (source of the second video) - it doesn't look like they do any diesel injector pump related courses anymore...

winmutt · #12 03-28-2011, 05:20 PM

According to the BOSCH slide show I watched a few years back its pretty straight forward. I hope to build my own personally. Just need a big enough stepper motor, controller and some pipets. Probably get away with a hall effect sensor and a drill motor.

DeliveryValve · #13 03-28-2011, 05:26 PM

Here is some good video by "dieselmeken" who frequently posts at superturbodiesel.com Shows his Bosch equipment with a flow meter in use

M Pump with 6mm elements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXY6fYnmBU

Bosch H-Series rebuild and calibration.
part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt5xXxWqTK0

part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-JnvHFwxo0

This company's video shows the use of the older fuel flowed into glass graduates.
part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKG_0pbzkrw&feature=related

part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo8_IlJe700&feature=related

part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxJqIRQD9SU&feature=related

.

Stretch · #14 03-29-2011, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

According to the BOSCH slide show I watched a few years back its pretty straight forward. I hope to build my own personally. Just need a big enough stepper motor, controller and some pipets. Probably get away with a hall effect sensor and a drill motor.

The drill motor sounds hopeful - if you can't get hold of a more powerful electric motor why not go for a small motorbike engine to turn the pump!

Good luck with the project - it sounds like fun - post your results.

I'm not planning to make a rig for myself - I'm more interested in what actually gets done... people are talking about spending a lot of money on this tuning, and I'd like to know what exactly gets done for the cash.