OM602/603 turbo intercooler kit from Mosselman! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gsxr · #16 06-03-2003, 08:52 PM

OK, I got a little more info. First the bad news. The kit will be approximately $1850 USD, thanks to a lousy exchange rate. And we don't know if it will fit USA engines or not (but he might fab pieces for USA models - need to ask). The good news is, he has been doing these for 15+ years and apparently the kit works well - no grenading OM60x engines when the power is turned up. Also good news is there are no injection parts to be replaced, just an internal adjustment to the IP to provide more fuel. Anyway, for more details I need to call Mosselman directly and ask some questions. I'll probably call tomorrow night (11pm here is morning over there). If anyone is still seriously interested and would like me to ask a question or two, post it here and I'll see what I can find out (not making promises!).

The stuff I plan to ask about includes: Will the kit fit USA models and if not, can he fab pieces to make it work; is any cutting required on the car; where does the intercooler mount; what is the approximate install time; can he fax me the installation instructions or any photos; and finally is there any power gain off idle or at low boost, or is the gain all at high RPM/boost conditions. I don't want to be a pest so I'm hoping to keep the questions short & direct (plus a call to Holland ain't gonna be cheap!

) But I definitely want to know more before plunking down that kinda cash! :p I still haven't decided if I'm going to go for it but I'll post what I find out. Sure would be nice to have power equal to the 98/99 E300 OM606 turbo in my 124! Mmmmm.

Regards,

speedy300Dturbo · #17 06-03-2003, 09:54 PM

I'm not sure if it would be worth near $2000 for that, assuming that the kit comes with just the intercooler itself, pipes, and misc. mounting hardware.

Local muffler shops told me that if I brought the car there with the intercooler installed (using large radiator hose as temporary piping) they would follow that as a template and the job should be under $100.

What interests me most is the size and shape of the intercooler. Plenty of wrecked turbo Saabs, Volvos, and Audis in the local yards, and used intercoolers off those are DIRT cheap.

Oh yeah, if he sends you any photos or instructions, scan and post!

gsxr · #18 06-05-2003, 12:07 PM

Finally got to chat with Mr. Mosselman himself this morning!

Here's the scoop:

As-is, his kit won't fit our USA engines. They have no EGR mixing housing, just a short (5-inch?) tube between the turbo exit and a longer intake crossover pipe. His kit replaces that short tube with a custom piece that bypasses the airflow to the plumbing. VERY sweet design. Since the USA cars have totally different turbo location (due to different exhaust manifolds & intake crossover), we have a lot more space, and a 3-piece pipe assembly where the Euro has only 1.

Translation: It is possible, with a different piece installed for USA engines, but you will lose EGR capability and be technically illegal in most states. I'm going to fax him some sketches of the USA pieces and see if he's willing to fab a unit to work with the USA cars.

Otherwise, the intercooler mounts in the bumper pocket ahead of the right wheel (where I thought it would). The plumbing goes through the foam-lined sound panel on that side, which should be the only cutting required. After it's all plumbed up, you make an internal adjustment to the IP full load fuel setting (this is where most of the home-made projects failed, IMO, like Ridge... the ALDA is still limited by the internal stop!). Done properly you get 20% more power and 25% more torque.

Anyway, it's definitely something I want to pursue. I'll post again when I have more info. On pricing, the USA vendor mentioned he might be able to sell it at a slight discount off MSRP - don't know how much but I'm hoping it's well under $2k with shipping. Exchange rates will affect this, right now the USD is weak compared to the Euro so it costs us more. The same kit retails for $1400 Euros across the pond.

Regards,

gsxr · #19 06-05-2003, 12:12 PM

Note the single, short tube between turbo & intake:

gsxr · #20 06-05-2003, 12:13 PM

Note the short lower tube & EGR mixing housing. The short little top pipe is not in this photo, it was stuck in the end of the intake crossover pipe at the time:

sixto · #21 06-05-2003, 04:11 PM

How difficult is it/can it be to replace the 5" tube with an iron or stainless steel tube to which you weld a flange for the EGR valve?

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

speedy300Dturbo · #22 06-05-2003, 04:13 PM

Oh NO! I will lose EGR capability! Then again, I only use my 300D when I race off road.

It would be interesting to do some before and after dyno tests! I wonder how difficult it is to adjust the internals of the IP?

Maybe we would get a better deal if we're both in on this, eh Dave? Gotta talk some more 603'ers into it!

gsxr · #23 06-05-2003, 05:08 PM

Sixto - if you must retain the EGR for smog test purposes (visual or sniffer), it would be possible to custom-add that. It would require butchering the existing "mixer housing" and welding that flange on to the new section. I'm not going to ask him to allow EGR retention, I'll be thrilled if he'll make any kit to work with USA engines. Note that the pieces to be fabbed may or may not lend themselves to adding the EGR flange, but you could always visit your local CNC shop with some parts in hand and explain what you want. Also remember the flex metal tube to the exhaust would need to be a precise fit for this to work. I'm heavily leaning toward running EGR-less as it doesn't reduce emissions hardly at all anyway!

Speedy - yeah, mine's off-road race use only too!

If I attempt this, I also plan to do before & after testing. Definitely some accelleration runs with the AP-22 performance computer, and possibly a dyno run before & after if I can find a competent shop in the Boise area. It would need a healthy fan blowing on the intercooler to provide the cooling effect though! Adjusting the IP internals is simple. It will require removal of the cruise actuator to get the flat governor cover off the rear of the IP, or at worst, removal of the IP (a good idea anyway to replace all the oil seals). You adjust one screw internally to Mosselmans' specs - that's it!

As to pricing, I think if we could get an order of 2 or more there's a decent chance of a price break. Don't know yet. If anyone is SERIOUSLY interested, let me know via private email. As a total guess (could be way off), I think it would be hard to get the price under $1500, unless the USD-Euro currency exchange rates swing in our favor over the next few months!

On a side note. I suspect a MINOR power gain can be had by adjusting the IP internally, and turning the wastegate to max spec (0.95 bar). You can't get too much or the EGT's will be too high - that's how the intercooler works and allows more fuel & power. If anyone is interested in playing with that (internal IP adjustment) for more power, send me a private email and I'll send you the basic directions on what to do. Just be warned you theoretically could melt pistons if you go too far! :p

Grdenko · #24 10-10-2003, 10:58 AM

any update on this project?

anybody put one in yet?

gsxr · #25 10-10-2003, 12:59 PM

Not yet.

I got some more photos of the European 603 engine, compared with the USA engine:

http://www.meimann.com/images/mercedes/OM603_intake/

And, I bought the EGR mixer housing and both connector pipes. I plan to send them to Mosselman so he can play with them, and see if he can make a USA adapter for his kit. That is, assuming he's willing to mess with this at all. If not, we're SOL, unless we locate a full European exhaust manifold & turbo setup to install on our USA cars - d'oh! Anyone else interested in possibly buying the kit at ~$1600-1800 USD? Mosselman will be more inclined to make it work if he knows he'll sell at least a half-dozen or so. I have a few tentatively interested but that's it. I'll post more info when I call Mosselman again.

Grdenko · #26 10-10-2003, 02:28 PM

great pictures, beautiful job on the egr. one question
on the charge air pipe at the turbo end, what kind of gasket is there? i wasnt able to get that end off, it felt like the gasket may have melted a bit so i could move it around but it wouldnt come off, and i didnt want to force it. do i have to twist it?

gsxr · #27 10-10-2003, 05:14 PM

If you mean the round end of the charge pipe (crossover pipe), there is a thick O-ring seal. You may need to twist and pry it out of place - they get kind of sticky after years without moving. Squirt a little WD-40 or similar lube to help it a bit. They're often re-usable.