Pete and Larry, I don't disagree with either of you. Both make good points on the uses and non uses on torque wrench use. Like i said, I didn't use that growing up, but now after witnessing my lug bolts on my car and seeing how much it cost for taking them off. It's probably better to use a torque wrench. I see this at all the major tire shops now. They use a torque wrench to finish off the job. Heck they don't want to spend the extra money in putting on new lug bolts, better yet getting them off after they've twisted one off. Try taking them off a SDL, the way the wheels are built, especially if one is broke off up inside. Those lug bolts on the 126 are easy to bend.

Lets see F1 engines displace about 3 liters run to 18k+ rpm and put out around 700hp(I think) Yeah next time I am running my 603 at 220mph I will just hope a piston doesn't fly out of the hood because some German was a little to tight on the rod cap bolts.

I have used a torque wrench on my IP seals and injectors and other sensitive parts. Other than that tight is good enough I know how to tighten a bolt enough not to have problems. Sorry my MB is not a rocket ship if my shock bolts are 18nm insted of 20 I know my car will just explode.

Signing off and getting back to the real world of working on old rusty MB's.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Hey, not so fast on the edit there TOM. This torque ranch you speak of, is this some place all you guys in Texas go to learn about tightening fasteners?

__________________
'82 300SD - 361K mi - "Blue"

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

listen, look, .........and duck.

You are correct Pete...
As a matter of fact Randy is giving a Torqueing Demo this weekend...
but his place is a Torque Lot.... 100 feet by 150 feet.... and more than 5 Mercedes...
Later we will have one here on my Torqueing Farm... 30 acres and more than 5 Mercedes...
I do not know what the qualifications are for a Torqueing Ranch...must be a pretty big spread.... However , I do know that it qualifies you to tuck your pants legs inside your boot tops.....

Okay Pete, I got it. , but at least I caught my error.

Only in Texas do they make them bigger and better

Well I slept on it before I made this decision and 7,950 posts is where it stops.

This person has tormented me for the last time on mercedesshop. This person would have something sarcastic to say if I were to start quoting from the phone book and I just don't need it. This decision is NOT based on this one single thread. This person has been blasting my posts on a regular basis for at least two years.

I hope everyone continues to enjoy their MB cars and I'm sure you'll get lots of help here at mercedesshop, but the last of it has come from me unless you have something specific in which case you can private mail me. The next time I need help, I'll just read the manuals a little more carefully or search the archives here. They have accumulated enough information to fix almost anything MB related.

Merry Christmas,

Larry, i'm confused, why would you not share your knowledge with all? I know that people sometimes disagree on things, but then that's the way it should be. It gives people different choices and alternatives to think about. You should keep on typing no matter what or who doesn't agree with you. You must be doing something right to have that kind of reaction. I don't know if there are any underlying cercumstances, but I wouldn't quit for no one....plus you really should go for 8,000 post, well make it 10,000.

I'm relatively New on here, but I do read your post and I think your post are invaluable. Hope your Reconsider.

Larry, I do hope you come back here at some time. I have benefitted a great deal from your insight here, especially when I was trying to make decisions about rebuilding my engine. Also, your post about the runaway issue you experienced with your daughter's car was the most selfless statement ever made here. The amount of frustration you have potentially saved others is immense. If I had not read that post, I could have easily done that to my rebuilt engine, and that would have been enough for me to give up my hobby forever. Instead, I will soon be able topost some pictures of what happened when I stopped by rebuild job in the middle and forgot to check 1 screw, and be able to recover from that without catastrophe. Before I ramble anymore, I want to say that it has been a pleasure to read your comments over the last 2 years. When I look at the postings, I look at the titles and also who has responded. When I see your name, I usually read it. That's because you have earned my respect with your words. Thank you, Larry.

__________________
'82 300SD - 361K mi - "Blue"

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

listen, look, .........and duck.

I haven't read this entire post, and probably won't, but I want to make a comment about the use of torque wrenches. I would venture a guess that 95% of the people who own them have no idea how to PROPERLY use them or maintain them. Thus, who cares if you actually use one!!!! If you aren't, or don't know how to use one, then you might as well not use one at all. I would guess that most people store their wrenches set to some value other than the lowest setting, for an adjustable type wrench. This is a no-no since you are keeping a constant tension on the internal spring which can cause the wrench to become non-linear over time. I would also guess that most people give that wrench one more good tug once the wrench has "broken". What purpose does that serve? The wrench is supposed to "break" at a set point...why push that wrench past the break point. And one last comment...I would venture a guess that 99.99% of home mechanics do not get their torque wrenches calibrated periodically. Without doing this, how do they know that the wrench is breaking at the true set point? If you are making critical measurements, then you should get your wrench checked periodically.

Since 99.99% of those out there who own torque wrenches don't maintain them properly, they might as well put a big ol' breaker bar on the end of their wrench and give it a good tug...it is just about as precise.

Mike

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Mike

'80 300D
'84 300D
'85 300D
'87 300D

Interesting logic. This is like saying that 95% of people who wear wrist watches do not properly maintain them. 99.99% of wristwatches are not 100% accurate, therefore we should tell time by observing the position of the sun.

The Mercedes service manual makes countless references to torque values. One can argue that an experienced mechanic can torque fasteners to specification by feel. If that is the case, I don't know how said mechanic developed such an accurate feel unless it was through the repeated use of a calibrated wrench. The average DIY'er is doing good if he can recognize the size of a fastener, let alone torque one correctly by feel. I will take a somewhat inaccurate torque wrench over a breaker bar any day.

We are close to blundering into a discussion of precision and accuracy. I will say that even an uncalibrated torque wrench can help someone be consistent and there is some value in that.

My previous post on tightening a fastener without a torque wrench was partially inspired because one needs to be aware that blind faith in one technique over all others can be a bad approach. When you tighten a fastener you need to be aware of what you are trying to accomplish and evaluate all sensory inputs and not just pull like hell and try to quit when the wrench says to. A large part of working successfully depends on really looking at what you are doing and evaluating as you go.

I have seen mechanics successfully use an air wrench for a torque wrench. Low setting, go through the pattern. Medium setting, go through the pattern. Torque wrench to finish, if needed. This technique is not recommended and could cause you problems if you are observed doing this.

When you torque something you should be thinking about levers, springs, strain, stress, circles, spirals and Fibonacci numbers.

"I will say that even an uncalibrated torque wrench can help someone be consistent and there is some value in that. "---TwitchKitty

Amen !

Particularly when dealing with Cast Iron items repeatedly subject to thermal stress cycles...

The local tech kollege has a calibrator for torque wenches. I take mine down every 6 months or so just to check on it. Especially if I have a big project. I have seen the best of mechanics who swear by a torque stick. After they have done it, I take a torque wench and test them all. What do I find? Out of 5 bolts, 3 have different torque values.

I propose a test. To those who say they can do it by feel, can you prove it? Ie, have say 100 different bolts and torque them to their specs and have it verified by a torque wrench for accuracy and consistency. If that doesn't settle the arguement once and for all, I don't know what will.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Local tech kollege, huh? While you are down there, you might want to swing by the English Department...

Hey, huked on fonix wurks for me.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow