I don't know. I have a boat with an I/O motor, a PWC, 2 ATVs and 3 cars that I have been supervising for a long time. I had my house built and a friend who used to build all kinds of buildings look into it for me as to what was being done. In short, if I don't know about something, I find someone who does that I can trust to watch over it for me.

Well, depending on what was done, I have a mechanic that cut diagnostic time to a quarter but he has very few comebacks that are his fault. Of course, some are his fault but that is par for the course.

On a 10 hr job, if I want to be competitive, I might scale it back to say book time less a half hour. I wouldn't go to straight time or book time, whichever is less. I want to be competitive and not price myself out of the water. Afte all, I need something to seperate myself from you and if you charge $10, I would go $9.50 to win the bid if it took me 5 hrs. However, I have my limits and I will not go that low as to charge you $5 when i can charge you $9.50 and still win the bid. As to why I won't do business with a shop like that, the answer is that I wouldn't trust them if they went that low. There must be a reason. I mean, if they can charge me 9 hrs when everyone does 10 hrs to win the bid, I have no problem with it. However, if everyone else charges 10 hrs and they are doing it for 5, it raises the question of WHY. Why would you go so far below? I wouldn't. Like I said, a slight difference so you are competitive, I understand. Too much and I worry. I never trust anything that is too good to be true.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Trust me, if we all used straight time the customers would be paying a lot more. Book time rewards long term highly skilled mechanics for their skills. Book time is based off the "average" mechanics time to do the job without any coffee breaks, damaged bolts, unexpected things added in. This means that it takes the average mechanic that long to do the job not including going to the restroom, getting coffee, fixing stripped bolts etc. This works as a pay scale for mechanics. Newer and less skilled mechanics do not make as many hours as it takes them longer to do a job. Highly skilled and talented mechanics make many more hours as they have years of experince and skill, along with costly tools needed to do the job quicker. Even those of us who turn the most hours still run into problems which are unaccounted for. I have turned a Northstar Cadillac engine in a single day before (start to finish), beating the book time by several hours. However, I have also run into problems with these same jobs where that vehicle may have been in my shop a week because of unexpected failures or problems. While I may not have spent the entire week working on it, an hour here and there adds up and costs me money in the long run. I am fast, highly skilled and been doing this job for many years. I make more than the average mechanic because my skill warrants it. I have over $60,000 invested in tools and I am rewarded for this in higher pay and book hours I beat. The average mechanic makes the average pay and has the average amount of tools. When I complete a job under the book time, you are rewarded in that you get your vehicle back sooner and had it worked on by a higher skilled technician who had more experience. That said, mechanics in general are "grossly under paid" for their skill levels. Being a technician now days uses everybit of yourself, brain, brawn, dexterity, etc. Cars are more compicated than ever and only getting worse. A drivability technician is as highly skilled (or higher) than most doctors and while doctors only have a license to "practice", we are expected to fix it right the first time. All this while most customers assume right off that we are out to screw them.

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85 300CD
83 300TD
78 240D (daughter)

Doctors have it a lot easier than mechanics because they only have to learn 2 models and they don't keep changing them every year LOL.

MDs are licenced to practice but they are assumed to be gods. They have to gaurantee that everything goes as planned or they get sued whether it is their fault, patient's fault or just life that sucks. IOW, you do everything medically possible and the patient doesn't heal or it doesn't heal in the way and/or time the patient expects and you get sued. 75% of OB-Gyns have been or will be sued in their career. Are they all bad? I think not.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

yes but the add ons in terms of new things are going to kill them. For instance, an old retired RN told us that when she started there were only 10 drugs they had to know. Today, my wife is expected to know way more than 10 drug CLASSES and all their side effects of each drug in each class.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Unforseen delays was one of the reasons I left my previous dealer. Their customer car lot was so overcrowded it was ridiculous how much time was wasted trying to get cars out of the parking garage. Two non-adjacent out of four levels were for customers cars, now imagine about each level has 155 parking spaces, and every spot is filled as well as two rows down each of three aisles of cars double parked per level. It happened often, not a single spot of space left.

Now you, the tech, goes to get your next car, which is only for, lets say, a burned out headlight bulb and a stop lamp switch (C-class). 8 cars are blocking your car in, but oh no, they can only seem to find keys for 6 of them. In the meantime, a few more cars had been parked while you were away trying to track down keys, and now you have to get the keys to move them as well. Longest time I ever had spent trying to get a car out of the garage and into the shop was just over 2 hours. I heard heard others stories of even longer delays. It was especially fun in wintertime when it had snowed, and a porter had parked the car on the roof level of the garage!

By the way, you make .2 off the bulb and .4 for the stop lamp switch for a grand total of .6 minus the two hours wasted getting the car out, and you've made -1.4 on that job.

I'm glad I left, there were 80+ techs and only 73 lifts. My new shop has 25 lifts in, and room for 25 more with only 19 techs so far. Ahhhh, room to stretch out a little....

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1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350

.................and that is assuming that you can change the bulb and the stop lamp switch in under 30 seconds.........................

You don't write your tools off? Ever done ANY side work? then you can write your tools off... that's how they are paid for. Besides- aint no real difference in a $800 craftsman box and a $3000 snap on box. Yes I did get bonus- the company made money, and I helped them. I didn't do a job in 5 hours that they quoted for 10 three times a week and get paid for an extra 15 hours. All the better yacht mechanics don't look at the hours- the do the job right and worry about hours later. If you're so good you can always beat the book time- open your own shop. That's the free market. My MB indie charges $78 an hour (more than the average indie here), and charges for the time he works. He's always busy because he's honest and does good work. Other shops charge less per hour, but take more time and perhaps don't do as good job. While making $ is the supposed goal of all biz- it's not the goal of life. If one shop charges $100 an hour and does the job in 5 hours, and the other shop charges $50 an hour and does the job in 10 hours, they both charge $500 for the job. I'd rather give my $ to a shop who charges more per hour and bills me for what he does rather than a shop who charges less and adds hours to the bill because he thinks he deserves the extra for whatever reason. You're sliding down a slippery slope when you add hours to the bill to make $. My father told me long ago that he was just borrowing this world from me- and I would be borrowing it from my kids. Collectively our decisions influence what this world is like, and that's more important than $. Any shop can charge whatever the market will allow, and there is nothing wrong with that- but I and I believe others believe that if you are a great shop and charge more and do the job in less hours you'll still make $ and be honest. My and many other indies success proves this. I'm not looking for a fight or to stand on a soap box- just presenting one potential customers views on how I spend my auto repair $.

I once did a repair that I was very familiar with. Needless to say because of that I was able to do it in 1/4 of the book time.

when I presented the customer the bill ( I had given an estimate first) and stuck with the original estimate, the customer freaked out.
He said it only took me 15 minutes. why should I pay for an hour.
I advised him that any other tech or shop would take and hour or more between diagnosis and part R&R. He had someone very familiar with that repair, did it correctly and effeciently.

He happily paid the bill...

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79 240D my current toy
42 years a Diesel addict

240D sold
250SE sold
220D sold
280C sold
280S sold
300D (2) sold
300CD sold
300DT sold
300SD sold
380SL sold

Years back I was asked to do an oil pump in a Subaru. The first thing I checked was the book on procedure. First sentance was "remove engine from vehicle". I looked at it and said no way. I removed the radiator and grill and jacked the engine up a few inches. Pump slid right out. Couple hour job tops. Imagine what you would have paid had you been billed following the "book". Hell of a profit for a mechanic. I charged a fair price for a few hours work. The customer was very hapy. Mike

You sound like an indie I'd send my cars to...

Let me get this straight.

You are perfectly happy, and trust, a shop that can perform a 10 hour book job and get it done in 5 hours by working as fast as possible and cutting corners. They charge you 9.5 hours labor and you are perfectly fine with it.

Now, a second shop, who also does the same job in 5 hours, and also cuts the same corners, charges you 5.5 hours for that job. You don't trust this shop because they charged you significantly less than book??

And you don't trust the second shop because they have not bent you over far enough so that you feel comfortable.

Unbelievable.

Aklim would never go to a mechanic such as yourself because he doesn't trust you. If you don't charge very close to book then there is something wrong with you.

Well, if everyone is charging 10 hrs and you charge 5.5, I wonder why you are so good to me. Everytime I had a situation like that and went with it, I ended up getting bent over. Everytime I didn't, I tend to find out later why I was right in avoiding that place.

I have got quotes for a body shop where everyone said $1000 give or take. One said he wanted the business and did it for $600. Well I got it back way, way later and the work was shoddy and I had a hell of a time getting him to redo it. This is just one example of what my wife would call "A deal that isn't a deal".

My point is that I can understand businesses giving a little discount to lure the customer. However, I wouldn't go that drastically low to do it. If they were in line with everyone and a little lower, fine. Way too low from what the region asks I don't trust. Would you buy my car if the going rate was $20K and I said 10K? I'd wonder what you are trying to hide.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

My father is the cheapest man on the planet. There is no level of quality that will beat a low price. So, in this aspect, I agree with you. You can have many situations, and auto body and paint is a classic situation, where you get what you pay for. Attempting to compare jobs by price in this arena is highly dangerous, at best.

However, to bring you back on topic, we were discussing repairs by a mechanic. If one mechanic agrees to change a water pump for 8 hours labor and another agrees to change the pump for 5 hours labor, you are still getting the same product in the end, in theory. The man who charges 8 hours labor may get the job done in 5 hours and pocket the remainder. The man who gets the job done in 5 hours is charging exactly the time that it took.

You would be foolish to simply dismiss the lower price to change the water pump, simply because the price is 60% of book, IMHO.