I agree. Every manufacturer makes mistakes which can cost huge sums of money to correct. However, not dealing with mistakes timely and appropriately and permitting personal injuries to factor into the equation is when things can get very, very expensive and cost a great deal of the manufacturer's reputation and owner base. This is bad news for MB and us owners since engineering, reliability and exclusivity had historically kept resale values the highest of all makes. Now, the word is out on MB reliability from many sources and resale values have tanked (which also increases MB's lease program costs due to residual values). IMO, MB has done a terrible job since it was required (nee, decided?) to compete on a cost basis with Lexus and others in the early 90's. Until that time, MB built "the best engineered vehicle in the world" and could charge accordingly. Now, through the proliferation of smart cars, Baby Benzes, SUV's and various other vehicles, MB sells vehicles at all price points. This may have looked like a good business plan, but MB and its suppliers have done a terrible job of balancing cost vs. quality/reliability. For example, $380 fuel pumps that last 25-50K when the old Bosch units would go 150-200K, $400 MAF's that last 50-75K, $120 rear window regulators that require replacement every 4-5 years, $2-3K navigation units and head units that fail all the time (I had a total of 5 units fail under warranty in 2 cars over a 2 year period), software "fixes" that an MB shop foreman told me won't "run" out of the box half of the time, improperly sealed $500 transmission shift controllers that fail when liquid from the cup holder or sprayed preservative short it out, $500-2800 ETA's that fail in 8-10 yr old cars, and the list goes on. Until MB acknowledges that it has a serious problem with quality AND devotes significant energy and resources to solve this problem, I am fearful that the ship will eventually be lost. If the Japanese did it and the Koreans are doing it, so can MB. Correcting known defective products would be a good start and IMO be a better place to spend money (on its existing customer base and probable future customer base if it does the right thing) instead of on expensive advertising, disingenuous customer relations and product placement. Don't get me wrong, I have been an MB fan since my Dad bought himself a used 1961 220b when I was 10 yrs. old and I have owned many different MB models over a 30 yr. span. I have enjoyed most of those cars but I am finding it difficult to like the MB's manufactured over the past 10-12 years due to reliability issues. I sure wish MB would figure it out. Mark

I have never expected a high end car to be cheap to operate. If one wants a cheap car to drive well then a MB is probably not a good choice.

Oh yeah the old ones are real trouble free, I have only replaced $1,200 worth of parts since Jan on the SDL. Yeah they last forever sure keep saying that...

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Thank you!

I was getting ready to report to you guys a rather disturbing trend I've been noticing in the NHTSA complaints I've been compiling, and the thread was locked--again. Strange.

Anyway...

For those of you that have already replaced your harnesses, and think the Mercedes Engine Wiring Harness Defect no longer concerns you, and so, is too much trouble to file a complaint with the NHTSA:

There are a fair number of NHTSA complainants reporting (within their ODI complaints) that they are on their third harness (second replacement). Evidently, Mercedes-Benz is (or was) selling new-old-stock replacement harnesses. Talk about arrogance.

I just emailed the NHTSA's ODI a note to this effect, as well as remind them of the number of fires reported within the files...

My online "list" of NHTSA complaints is now up to 180, and I sent ODI a new, printed out, hard-copy batch of complaints last Friday. That brings the total I have sent--so far--to the NHTSA's ODI, in four separate mailings, to 175.


MERCEDES-BENZ 1991-1996 ENGINE WIRING HARNESS DEFECT NHTSA COMPLAINTS

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MERCEDES-BENZ 1991-1997 ENGINE WIRING HARNESS DEFECT NHTSA COMPLAINTS

Info...thanks for your efforts.

The images of the wires, snaking throughout the harness, with cracked insulation should give Benz reason to pause and make things right.

In my 1989 300TE, the outside plastic insulation (wherever two or more wires run together) has gotten hard, brittle and cracked at places. The actual wires, however, seem to be OK.

Was the problem due to Benz using the lowest bidder? Or was Benz forced to use biodegradable material in order to meet some German law that requires a certain percentage of each car to be recyclable?

I know that inmany sales brochures, Benz (and Volvo) brag about how green their cars are and what a high percentage of the car can be recycled.

In any event, however, Benz should do the right and honorable thing...shoot the guy who approved the harness bid.

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Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

My dad just came to visit and I had the opportunity to inspect his engine's wiring harnesses. The main engine harness had been replaced some time ago and looks fine but the starter harness is shot especially in the vicinity of the oil filter. MB would of course attribute this to rough filter changes (the oil filter tool will indeed contact the wires) but the insulation has clearly lost its plasticity and crumbles to the touch (much like friable asbestos). I would surmise that this harness is the one that really can and does cause fires since the un-fused positive battery cable which can carry hundreds of amps is a part of it. I recall seeing the aftermath of a 94 or 95 wagon that inexplicably burned to the ground a couple of years ago due to an engine fire--I wonder if this harness was the culprit. Mark

Does anyone know the total number of each model car Mercedes imported to the USA between 1991-1996?

If possible, I'm looking for the model year numbers as opposed to the number of cars actually shipped during the year. But either set of numbers would be of great interest.

Worldwide production numbers would be very helpful too.

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MERCEDES-BENZ 1991-1997 ENGINE WIRING HARNESS DEFECT NHTSA COMPLAINTS

[QUOTE=whunter]Any other view of the situation is IMO going to be impossible = as silly as trying to prosecute FORD because the wiring on a Model-T failed in 2006.

People need to be aware that vehicles are NOT designed/engineered to last one hundred years and millions of miles.


The wiring harness on the model t is probably still good!!! hahaha

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1994 C280
2009 VW Tiguan
1993 Toyota X-tra Cab SE-5


1973 220D ... Gone, but not forgotten
1991 Alfa Romeo 164L Gone, wife MADE me forget it

2006 Hyundai Tucson... just straight out FORGOTTEN!

There has been some discussion about how long these harnesses should last. It has been argued that the harnesses have, or that our cars' wiring has, an engineered "service life."

The below NHTSA complaint may be the earliest reference to how short a lifespan these harnesses can have before they fail. Note that the complaint concerns a 1995 129 (320SL), and the owner says his first harness that failed, an engine harness, was replaced in 1998.

The 320SL owner has since had to replace four different harnesses, all for the same reason. Mercedes told him what they told me, "this is normal wear and tear," and offered no assistance.

Also, check my web page for new complaints (183 and counting), and the images page for a new, very good image, sent to me of a disintegrating harness. See for yourself pictures of two different Mercedes-Benz wiring harnesses suffering from, so called, "normal wear and tear."

Remember, this is a problem that MBUSA denies exists...

http://sites.google.com/site/infoage1/mercedes-benz-1991-1996-engine-wiring-harness-defect


NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 129
Year: 1995
Date of Failure: March 16, 2005
Complaint Number: 10150787

Summary:
CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON DASHBOARD, IDLE ROUGH, STALLING OF CAR. I CHECKED THE ENGINE HARNESS CONNECTOR TO THE AIR MASS METER AND GENTLY MOVED THE WIRES. THE OUTSIDE INSULATION BEGAN TO SMOKE, THEN MELTED FROM THE HEAT. I QUICKLY TURNED OFF THE CAR'S ENGINE AND CHECKED THE DAMAGE. THE INSULATION COVERING THE 4 WIRES INSIDE OF THE HARNESS HAD TOTALLY DISINTEGRATED, THUS CAUSING SHORT CIRCUITS IN THE HARNESS. THE HEAT GENERATED ACTUALLY MELTED THE OUTSIDE COVERING OF THE WIRES BOTH AT THE AIR MASS METER CONNECTOR AND UNDERNEATH THE MAIN ENGINE COMPUTER (ECU). I HAD THE CAR TOWED TO THE LOCAL MB DEALER AND THEY SAID THAT THE WHOLE BODY WIRING HARNESS WAS DESTROYED AND HAD TO BE REPLACED AT A COST OF $1250 PLUS $600 FOR THE HARNESS. MB SAID IT WAS NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR AND OFFERED NO ASSISTANCE. I FEEL THAT THE HARNESSES ON MY 1995 SL320 WERE MADE FROM SUBSTANDARD MATERIALS AND THUS DISINTEGRATED PREMATURELY PUTTING MYSELF AT RISK FROM A POSSIBLE CAR FIRE. I STILL HAVE THE HARNESS IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO INSPECT IT. ANOTHER HARNESS, THE ENGINE WIRING HARNESS WAS ALSO FOUND TO BE DEFECTIVE, CAUSING SHORT CIRCUITS, AND WAS REPLACED BY MB UNDER WARRANTY IN 1998. SO FAR I HAVE REPLACED 4 DIFFERENT WIRING HARNESS ON MY CAR, ALL SHOWING THE SAME DECOMPOSITION OF THE WIRING INSULATION. *NM

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MERCEDES-BENZ 1991-1997 ENGINE WIRING HARNESS DEFECT NHTSA COMPLAINTS

I wonder if $500 a harness is really making up for the negative feelings that many people are now having for the Mercedes nameplate. I don't think Mercedes should pay to have these harnesses fixed on a 10+ year old car but at the same time I don't think they should be making such a profit off of this. At $1200 for labor its a real cash cow for the dealerships.

I guess Mercedes is going to end up playing the same game that many American makers do blaming the customer and making themselves look bad when the news coverage starts to focus on them. Ford is a great example of a company that plays games like this. When you design a car thats dangerous to begin with and then put cheap tires on it your just asking for problems. When enough Mercedes cars burn up and eventually one is newsworthy enough Mercedes is going to have a nasty PR problem on their hands.

I absolutely adore the 07 S class but until Mercedes cleans up their act and starts standing behind their products I would not be able to even consider actually buying one.

I would say it is only a matter of time before there are deaths attributed to the failing harnesses. Given the larger numbers of cars that are only now showing symptoms, the chances of a defective wiring harness attributed catastrophe can only be increasing.

With an increasingly higher NHTSA/public awareness, all fires, and any accidents caused by stalling (or limp-home events), will have have a better chance of being fully investigated, and thus, directly attributed to this defect.

I believe this is what the NHTSA is struggling with internally. Given the very large number of filed complaints, they will look pretty bad for failing to have taken action.

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NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 500
Year: 1992
Complaint Number: 514982
Summary:
ENGINE COMPARTMENT FIRE. I HAD DRIVEN TO WORK FROM HOME (75 MILES), STOPPED AT THE GATE TO OPEN. AS I RETURNED TOWARD THE CAR FLAMES BEGAN UNDER ENGINE COMPARTMENT. CALLED FIRE DEPT. 911

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: SL
Year: 1994
Complaint Number: 10151360
Summary:
TOTAL ELECTRICAL FAILURE, ENGINE STOPPAGE, DEACTIVATION OF ABS, ASD, SEAT BELTS, ELECTRIC DOOR LOCKS, LIGHTS. WHEN GOING OVER A RAILROAD TRACT, ROAD VIBRATION CAUSED DETERIORATED WIRING INSULATION (INSIDE A BUNDLE OF WIRES) TO FALL OFF CAUSING A MASSIVE ELECTRICAL SHORT CIRCUIT. APPARENTLY SEVERAL MODEL YEARS OF THESE CARS WERE MANUFACTURED WITH WIRE INSULATION THAT 'CRUMBLES' TO A POWDER. THIS CONDITION IS NOT VISIBLE DURING ORDINARY INSPECTION AND REQUIRED ONE TO CUT OPEN THE ENCAPSULATED WIRING HARNESSES. FAILED WIRING HARNESSES FOR THESE CARS ARE COMMON I LEARNED FROM SEARCHING THE MDZ BULLETIN BOARDS. I HAVE 6 FAILED ELECTRONIC THROTTLE ACTUATORS (AT $1800 EACH!!) EXHIBITING THIS TYPE OF FAILURE. ONE EXHIBITED UNCOMMANDED WIDE OPEN THROTTLE. THE OTHERS FAILED BY ENTERING THE 'LIMP HOME' MODE. MERCEDES BENZ NORTH AMERICA IS AWARE OF THIS SERIOUS DEFECT BUT REFUSES TO REPAIR OR WARRANT THIS DEFECTIVE SAFETY SYSTEM. I WAS SHOCKED THAT MY CAR SHUT OFF COMPLETELY AND A SMALL FIRE ERUPTED IN THE MAIN ENGINE WIRING COMPARTMENT HARNESS. *NM

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 190
Year: 1993
Complaint Number: 835649
Summary:
WHILE DRIVING ABOUT 20 MPH, WITHOUT NO PRIOR WARNING, THE VEHICLE DIED OUT. CONSUMER HAD THE VEHICLE TOWED TO HER HOUSE, AND VEHICLE CAUGHT ON FIRE DUE TO AN ELECTRICAL SHORT. *AK

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 420
Year: 1995
Complaint Number: 10033790
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:WIRING:FRONT UNDERHOOD
Summary: AFTER PARKING THE VEHICLE, THE CONSUMER NOTICED SMOKE COMING FROM THE STEERING COLUMN. AS A RESULT OF THE FAILURE, FIRE CAME THROUGH THE FIREWALL. THE LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT ARRIVED TO EXTINGUISH THE FIRE. *AK THERE WERE NO PRIOR PROBLEMS. THE VEHICLE HAD FILLED WITH BLACK SMOKE WITH THE IGNITION OFF AND THE VEHICLE PARKED. THERE WAS NO WARNING. *SCC *JB

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 320
Year: 1995
Complaint Number: 898986
Summary:
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:WIRING:FRONT UNDERHOOD
WHILE TRAVELING APPROXIMATELY 30 MPH SMOKE STARTED COMING OUT FROM UNDERNEATH HOOD OF VEHICLE. DEALERSHIP EXAMINED VEHICLE, AND DETERMINED THERE WAS A POWER SURGE IN ELECTRICAL SYSTEM THAT CAUSED A FIRE TO START. *AK *YH

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 420
Year: 1991
Complaint Number: 706220
Summary:
Crash: NO Fire: YES

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 300SE
Year: 1991
Complaint Number: 10040933
Summary:
UNDER-HOOD FIRE TOTALED CAR. FIRE DEPT. REQUIRED TO EXTINGUISHED FIRE. FIRE STARTED WHILE CAR WAS BEING DRIVEN. CAUSE UNDETERMINED.

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 300SE
Year: 1991
Complaint Number: 10011882
Summary:
CONSUMER NOTICED SMOKE COMING FROM UNDER THE HOOD. THE VEHICLE CAUGHT ON FIRE AND WAS TOTALED. THE FIRE INSPECTOR INDICATED THE FIRE WAS CAUSED BY THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM. *JB

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 300
Year: 1991
Complaint Number: 511109
Summary:
ELECTRICAL WIRING OVERHEATED, CAUSING FIRE.

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: 190
Year: 1991
Complaint Number: 958826
Summary:
VEHICLE CAUGHT ON FIRE WHILE STOPPED, IT STALLED THEN BURST INTO FLAMES UNDER HOOD. TT

NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: E CLASS
Year: 1994
Complaint Number: 10128437
Summary:
1994 E320 HAD INTERMINTENT RUNNING PROBLEMS. CAR WOULD STALL WITHOUT WARNING, ESPECIALLY DURING A RAIN OR AFTER WASHING THE CAR. REPLACED MANY PARTS(MASS AIR METER, TUNE UP, OVP RELAY, FUEL PUMP RELAY, ETC) TO CHASE THE PROBLEM, NONE OF WHICH SOLVED IT. BEGAN TO LOOK ON MERCEDES FORUMS AND FOUND THIS TO BE A COMMON PROBLEM. BEFORE I REPLACED THE ENGINE WIRING HARNESS IT BEGAN TO SMOKE HEAVILY FROM UNDER THE HOOD. I HAD AN EXTINGUSIHER WITH ME AND STOPPED IT FROM CATCHING FIRE. MERCEDES COVERED PART OF THE COST UNDER THEIR "GOODWILL" PROGRAM HOWEVER I HAD TO INSTALL IT WHICH TOOK ABOUT 8 HOURS. THE FIRST OCCURANCE HAPPEND AROUND 125K MILES HOWEVER IT WAS MANY MONTHS AND MILES LATER THAT THE PROBLEM WAS FIXED.


NHTSA Complaint Summary
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Model: SL
Year: 1994
Complaint Number: 10074940
Summary:
THE WIRING HARNESS TO THE ENGINE CONTROL SYSTEM DEVELOPED SEVERE SHORTS, STALLED THE ENGINE, DISABLED THE ABS, ASR,SRS SYSTEMS. WITH ENGINE STALLED, STEERING AND BRAKING WERE DIFFICULT AND RESULTED IN FRONT END DAMAGE FROM IMPACT TO ROADSIDE BRUSH AND DIRT. WIRING INSULATION INSIDE THE WIRING BUNDLES HAD CRUMBLED TO DUST IN MANY PLACES FAR REMOVED FROM THE SHORT/MINOR FIRE. CAR STILL NOT OPERABLE DUE TO OTHER MAJOR WIRING HARNESS SHORTS DUE TO CRUMBLING INSULATION ON THE WIRES (HIDDEN BY THE BUNDLE JACKET) DEALER RESPONSE "TOUGH IF YOU HAD BOUGHT IT FROM US, AND IT WAS NEW, MAYBE, OTHERWISE GOOD BYE!" *AK

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MERCEDES-BENZ 1991-1997 ENGINE WIRING HARNESS DEFECT NHTSA COMPLAINTS

Its greed pure and simple. If they can stick someone by charging them $500 for some wires and a few plastic connectors they are going to. Its just a function of the "free market system" that us Americans think is the best thing in the world. Its wonderful if your the one getting $500 for $20 worth of materials. It really sucks if your the guy writing the $1600 check for $20 worth of parts and 45 minutes worth of labor.

Unfortunatly in this case the greed in Mercedes case ultimately will end up as stupidity. Most of their current advertizing is based on the longevity of their older cars. When most of the 90's vintage cars burn up or get junked by owners sick of pouring money into a worn out car they will have to find some other horn to toot. That unfortunatly will be a sad day for all of us because they will probably at that point no longer have a reason to provide the parts support for the older cars.

In all reality the company Mercedes-Benz that made the wonderful cars we cherish so much went out of business in the mid 1990's. What's left is a greedy multinational corperation that is using the reputation of this dead company to make money.

My 126 has the signatures of the people who assembled it 24 years ago in its doorframe. My 140 is devoid of these signatures. Hmmmm Food for thought

Lawyers are concerned with precedent as in: "...if you do this one thing, it establishes a precedent and then you have to do it all the time."

We are also concerned with the slippery slope: "if you do A, then you are going to have to do B and then C and then D etc. etc. etc."

I am a lawyer. I was in-house counsel for an international oil company. I was also in-house counsel for another major institution. And I have represesented insurance companies. Trust me on this one.

People are quick to blame the bean counters. Bean counters are usually involved in the initial product design/cost allocations.

But when it comes to settling product liability claims, the lawyers have their hands far up the beancounters' butts -- they only move their lips when the lawyers let them.

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Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

Robert, when did they stop doing that? I had a 1967 250SE and a 1984 300SD, it sure would have been nice to seen their signatures.

You have a very nice 300SD and the Vovlo you own is a classic. I would not have bought the 2002 V70 for my daughter if I had been able to locate a 240 in decent shape like yours.

OK, I'll stop now. Don't want to cause this thread to be either locked or shipped over to the OD.

__________________
Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

So you're saying my 95 E320, bought for $28K four years ago, and I have since only put on 20K miles, is ready for the scrap heap?... this also implies that I'm a fool for having paid so much money for such a car back then instead of (for example) a new Sebring convertible.

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95 E320 Cabriolet, 169K

Your 124 will probably hold out longer than my '96 210 due to its more solid construction, but I'm not giving up on mine just yet. I only drove one 124 (300D 2.5 turbo) which drove rather well, but not as nicely as the 210 (IMO, of couse; they're different).

My '96 had a new engine harness installed before I got it.