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#46
06-24-2007, 11:19 PM
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6-24-07 Final Fit Check and Mods
Today with most of the welding complete and all gussets tack welded in place, I did a final fit check. There were a few last clearance issues. Since this was the last fit check, I checked it with both new and used (totally shot) engine mounts to get the clearance extreams. I ran out of Argon so the finish welding will have to wait until next week.
The end result was that I can get all the clearances I need with the current setup except for the area arround the alternator. With some die grinding into the 3/16" side plate, I should have about 1/4" clearance. This is not enough clearance however it is enough for me to go on to other tasks. Like plumbing and getting it running. The fix for the problem will be to use smaller urithane subframe mounts and rebuild the area. There is no sence screwing with this any more until I'm ready to put some real power to it. My plan for this is actually to make a second subframe with all of the stuff I have learned. Now that I have a subframe with everything positioned correctly I can take measurements and make a second one with a lot less difficulty or exploratory removal of metal. Ultimatly I would like to make my own subframe out of 4130. I have purchased a surface plate and height gage and I am ready to start measuring. The next time I put this subframe in, It will be painted and it will stay in untill the car is running. John Roncallo |
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#47
07-01-2007, 12:22 AM
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6-30-07 Subframe Welding Complete
Today I finished all of the welding of the subframe. I also took some time to take measurements of everything so I could do it much easier the next time.
All welding is complete. I wish I could say I weld as good as Pumpish but I bet he does not have quite the collection of masacared Tungstens I have. Each day I sharpen about 12 Tungstens and the last picture is what I end up with. This is really a job for a MIG mashine not a TIG but thats all I have. We will see how I do when I weld my exhaust (first time welding stainless). Tomarrow I will make up for my lack of welding skill with my excelent grinding skill and then paint it. I will be using Eastwood's undercarige ultra black and primer. I would like to say the engine will be put in tomarrow but I know that wont happen as it is time to clean up the engine bay and engine and re route some plumbing. My guess is another 3 weeks. Plus I will be cleaning and repainting all the other front end parts. Tomarrow I will also weigh it. Thats a scarry thought. John Roncallo |
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#48
07-01-2007, 10:01 PM
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7/1/07 Pimer Today
It looks good in color. This is the primer Wednesday will be the color. It will still look the same. Things are moving along. I cleaned the engine, undercarage and engine compartment today. Just a high pressure water wash. I will repeat the treatment with chemicals. I need to relocate 1 brake line and two fuel lines. I measured them today and to my surprise they are English diameters 3/16 and 5/16. Well that simplifies the problem in this country.
The following needs to be done before engine installation 1) Re-clean engine, trans undercarage and engine compartment, with chemicals 2) Re-locate 2 fuel lines and 1 brake line. 3) Replace front and rear Trans seal. and swap output flanges from old trans. 4) Relocate 560SL ABS module 1/2" to right. 5) Replace lower pan and gasket on engine. 6) Make two front subframe mounting sleaves John Roncallo |
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#49
07-03-2007, 08:11 PM
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It would be interesting to see how close your new subframe is to supporting an M100. But that's a different sort of performance spectrum.
I've seen one M100 conversion that hacked the original M107 subframe and also required steering changes. I know of two other M100 conversions in process. Looks like your approach is very much taking the bull by the horns. Thx -CTH |
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#50
07-03-2007, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
John Roncallo |
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#51
07-04-2007, 10:53 PM
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Cleaning Complete
Got the cleaning done today. The power washer is a little disapointing even after using Simple Green. It does look better in the pictures. To do the undercarige you need a wet suit. I took a real good shower doing this. And it was the first shower I ever took where I came out dirtier than going in. Things are starting to get a bit more mechanical. I'm starting to do more work and less thinking.
John Roncallo Last edited by Roncallo; 07-04-2007 at 10:59 PM. |
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#53
07-05-2007, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
John Roncallo |
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#54
07-08-2007, 03:26 AM
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7-7 Progress
Today I installed the painted subframe and engine. I ran into a little problem with the transmission in that the 4 web output flange from the SL600 did not interchange with the 3 web from the 560SL. Every thing was the same except the spline was slightly bigger on the SL600.
I did find that the SL500 (3 web) will interchange with the SL600 (4 web. I was able to figure that out based on the fact that both transmissions have the same output shaft part numbers. I will order an SL500 flange on Monday. I have been looking closely into Megasquirt for this engine and I have come to the conclusion that I can replace my electronic Throttle actuators with Ford Mustang 70mm throttle bodies, available anywhere for ~ $150 each I should be able to get this to work with wide band O2 sensors without MAF. If I just sold one of my throttle actuators it would pay for the whole system. The only real problem with this is that if I dont hook up the original system, I will not ever be able to scane the CAN bus for the MB propritry codes. John Roncallo |
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#55
07-08-2007, 12:52 PM
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Interesting...my old w140 S500 had allso 4-web driveshaft flanges while friends 350TD w140 had 3web...that makes me think that SL500 should allso have 4web...but I hope you are right.
Anyway why are yu bothering with meqasquirt 12cyl cop ignition? I am no pro. on this subject but seems to me that meqa can only handle up to 8cyl cop or 16cyl wasted spark? IMo it would be easyer to use VEMS or smth like that...price is the same as meqa, put its sure that this ecu can handle`em... regards, Allar |
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#56
07-08-2007, 01:19 PM
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P/N A 220 272 06 45 is shown as the three lobe and it will fit a 722.620 or 722.624 transmission and a list of others which does not include the 621. The 620 and 624 are used on the SL500 depending on year. P/N A 220 272 05 45 is shown as the four lobe and it will fit a 722.621 and other transmissions. The 621 is what came on my SL600. The 722.620, .621 and .624 all use the P/N A 220 270 00 26 output shaft. As far as using MegaSquirt over anything else. I would choose them based mostly on the support forums and the fact that they are currently developing a GPIO with Megashift addon which I will most probably need for my electronic transmission. Building and installing a Megasquirt is the best way I know to get to know how to do this. Once you get that going, you can swap it for anything you want. I belive at the moment the only way I can implement MS2 is with 2 units driving each side of the engine seperately. They are also working on a router that will allow for 12 cyl COP. Im also looking into the possibility of using 1 MS2 with addon code to drive 2 Ford EDIS 6 cyl ignition units if it can be done. The bottom line is MS is getting there and is a solution that I belive will be ready by the time I get it done. John Roncallo |
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#57
07-10-2007, 12:34 AM
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Yeah, That's what I was going to tell ya. MegaShift for the GPIO is coming out shortly. I have also seen code for non Mercedes ZF transmissions which should be very similar. This route is way better than trying to reverse engineer the Mercedes CAN protocol for the trans computer. Plus it will give you more flexibility in tuning. If your not already there, check out the Megasquirt forum, this is where all the Megasquirt designers hang out. Assembling megasquirt is very straight forward. The instructions are very good. It took me two evenings to assemble based on my skill level. Here’s a tip for ya..... READ ALL THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE YOU BEGIN ASSEMBLING!!! This is important because you will need to make some decisions before you begin building. Stuff like, will you be using a hall effect or VR or ignition signal for triggering, what type of ignition output are you using and what type of IAC your using..... It is important to figure out all of this before you start building. I’m not sure what your skill level is in soldering but I have been doing it since I was 10. The first key to good soldering is the Iron….. PLEASE, don’t buy a cheap Radio Trash one! Get one like this… The time it’s going to take you to get it up and running after assembly is not an easy question to answer. Based on what I have read in your posts and the quality of your work, not long. As long as you have a good plan before you start, things will come together really fast. I would highly suggest you get the relay kit as it makes wiring cleaner and easier. I would also HIGHLY suggest you use the MAP sensor. According to one of your posts, your thinking of not using it. Don’t do it. Megasquirt was designed to use it. I know you have 2 separate manifolds to deal with so, just connect it to one. I would also highly suggest you go with two WB02 sensors. This will make sure each side is properly balanced. You don’t want to burn out half of your M120! Having an engine that was originally designed for EFI is a great start, You don’t have to worry about designing the whole fuel delivery system like me. Also, going with the mustang TB’s is a good idea. You’re going to need to figure out what to do for your IAC. I have no clue off the top of my head but I’m sure we can figure something out. We may be able to use an extra Ford stepper motor on your mustang TB’s using an additional stepper motor driver…. Just a thought. Now, who to buy from. That’s easy… http://www.diyautotune.com These guys are the best! Great prices, quality components and excellent customer service. If you want I can generate a parts list for you to get started. Some stuff you may opt to not purchase but it will get you headed in the right direction. To start, I would get the MS2 kit and the stimulator kit. That will get you building. Also the DB-9 to USB is a worth while investment. Let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. I can’t wait to see your project done! Good Luck! Adam
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Current Stable: 01 ML55 AMG 92 500E (a few mods) 87 300E (lots of mods) 00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck 68 18' Donzi Marine  06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!  )PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320 
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#58
07-10-2007, 09:46 AM
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The Megasquirt Plan
At the moment the plan is as follows:
Use 1 MS2 unit with 2 Ford EDIS-2 controllers or equivolent. I will loose the throttle by wire and use two 70mm Ford aftermarket replacements. I will start by using a manifold absolute pressure MAP and manifold airflow MAF sensors, but would eventually like to eliminate the MAF sensors using wide band O2's. I dont know how I would ever get Megasquirt to run without MAP so that stays for the moment or maybe wide band is wider and faster than I thought. Idel air control IAC can be done with any other idel air controler. I can use one or 2 controlers. Cylinders can be balance based on MAP and tweeking the throttle stops. Still yet to be worked out. 1) Will MS2 drive 2 EDIS-6 units and 12 injectors. The alternate plane if it wont is to use 2 MS2 units 2) I need to find an aluminum 90° elbow with a 70 mm id that I can modify to mount the throttle bodies. I did fine a 4" unit for a Mastang Turbo charger inlet elbow, that too big. There should be some turbocharger system that uses a smaller aluminum one. Most turbos use a flexible inlet elbow which I cant use since I would be down stream of the throttle. 3) Will the Ford system drive the MB coils. From searching the web, I guess me finding that out is going to be my contrabution to MS. Otherwize it will be Ford coil pack and ugly wires. From all of the above once I solve problem #2, I belive I have an exacutable plan. I will more than likely carry this out wether I get the stock MB unit to run or not. So for me I belive my initial bill of materials will be something like this. Mesgasquirt 2 Interagator Megatune software Relay board GPIO card 2 Ford aftermarket throttle bodies 2 3" turbocharger inlet elbows. 2 Ford EDIS-6 modules 36 tooth wheel 2 hall effect pickups. Then the work involved will be: 1) Weld the turbocharger elbows into manifolds that will support the throttle bodies. 2) Build a throttle linkage 3) Build a MS2 unit and install 4) All the rest of the plumbing and fabrication I need to do on this car to finish the install. John Roncallo |
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#59
07-10-2007, 08:33 PM
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#60
07-10-2007, 09:05 PM
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The reason I went with the MB three flange was that it was the fastest and simplest way for me to get done. It may very well be a wast of $150.00 because eventually I will put the SL600 rear in but that will be one of my last priorites since I need to get it running. When I saw that the 3 web from the 560 dident fit I looked into an adapter plate. I would have gone with steel because the thickness would have made the drive shaft too long. My conclusion was that it cant be done because at least one bolt hole would overlap. Im debating the one pice drive shaft for the futer. I have attached a picture of a 2000 SL500 with a 3 lobe flange. |
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