190E 3.0-12v Turbo - Page 7 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

nick.ged · #91 10-28-2009, 10:20 AM

hears a msq, from the title i was trying out something new or different, but the ignition will be the same as i have always used, i will only try to tune this when i get to a rolling road. dont forget i am using ms1v3extra with ngk wideband, so some of these pages will be incorrect for you, but you can look at the timing screen, mabe you could upload it to this thread as you have done for yours, i would be interested to compare the two maps side by side.

nick.ged · #92 10-28-2009, 10:26 AM

i just read the posts above again, you updated to ms2? was it worth it? please post or pm me with details of hows whats and whys as i may well do simerlar.

Joreto · #93 10-29-2009, 04:46 AM

Nick, thanks for the *.msq file. Here is the ignition map :

I'll try it out on my car this weekend. No problem for the pages, I can just export and import the spark map, naturally I'll have to retune the fuel table but that's easy

.

The upgrade to MS2 was very easy, you just take out the MS1 processor an put in its place the MS2 processor board, then you'll have to convert your MS1 setting to MS2 Extra firmware, it's not hard. You get 16x16 fuel table, 12x12 AFR table, a faster processor and a lot of more options. Over all my car runs a lot smoother with MS2 and in my opinion it's worth upgrading.

I got this MS2 cpu board http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/megasquirt-module-p-51.html.

P.S. looks like your running a 400kpa map sensor .
P.P.S On a quick glance at the maps, I have more ignition timing in the lower kpa range and you run more timing in boost, however this is not my latest map, I'll upload the one I'm using this evening .

nick.ged · #94 10-29-2009, 09:29 AM

i reloaded megatune and mlv on my laptop last nite, and took ma look at what id sent you.

sorry but that msq is a really old one!!! the spike isnt in it, but you can try it, just be aware that the advance in boost might be too high for you, i blend my fuel, and have lower comp ratio than std. also note the two bins with twos in them high up to the right on my fuel map, they will kill your engine if you hit them, i havent a clue why they are there! must have changed them by mistake when saving gfile somehow!!!

i will take laptop to mums over the weekend(where i keep the car) and capture the tune i am currently using.

interesting that you have more advance out of boost, i will try upping mine!

Joreto · #95 10-30-2009, 08:09 AM

No problem about the fuel map, I can import just the ignition map

. Here is my latest ignition map, it's with lower ignition setting than the previous since the plan is to be a bit conservative before I get a chance to dyno tune the car, not that I had any problems with the previous one.

Joreto · #96 11-15-2009, 06:12 AM

Today I took out my g-tech to take a few HP measurements at 0.5 bars of boost.

Here are the results :

The spark table for runs 2 and 3 is modified with +2 deg.(run 2) and -2 deg. (run 3) from that of the first two runs. What comes to my attention is that the torque falls off steeply after ~ 4700 rpm. Also I calculate about 14.6 hp loss due to aero drag, so you can add 14.6 hp to the results to get approximate dyno hp.
Tried to get some 1/4 mile results but that didn't go so well because I have some problem in the drivetrain (probably the driveshaft bearing) so I can't floor it until after the middle of 2-nd gear (otherwise there is a lot of vibration), any how here are the results from the attempts :

Joreto · #97 12-06-2009, 05:53 AM

Finally had time to do another measurement with the g-tech after fixing the drivetrain problem. The run was 0 to 150 miles (top speed, gear,diff and rpm limit). Max speed is reached in 4015 ft (~1.2 km). Launch was very easy from around 2000rpm, boost is still 0.5 bar.

Joreto · #98 01-19-2010, 04:28 PM

This saturday I decided to test different ignition advance and to see what the performance difference will be using a g-tech pro/competition . I did 8 runs in total two for each ignition advance setting (18,20,22 & 26 degrees @ 0.5 bars). I was surprised that the difference between 18 and 26 deg. was just 6whp (according the to g-tech), what surprised me even more was that upto ~4000 rpm there was no gain in power when going from 22 to 26 deg. advance, after 4000 there was about 3 whp gain with 26 deg. advance. Here is a screen shot of the run, main run - 22 deg., run 1 - 20 deg., run 2 - 18 deg. and run 3 - 26 deg. (third gear runs)

Turbo E320 · #99 01-19-2010, 11:20 PM

What are your EGTs? That turbo is kinda small for that engine. You need something at least 60mm's with a .63 turbine housing(t3) or, preferably, a .68(T4) housing.

Joreto · #**100** 01-20-2010, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo E320

What are your EGTs? That turbo is kinda small for that engine. You need something at least 60mm's with a .63 turbine housing(t3) or, preferably, a .68(T4) housing.

Didn't log the EGT-s on the runs because I couldn't get the MS to log them

, however I have logged them previously @ 26 degs advance (zeitronix software) and they were around ~750 - 800 C (1380 - 1470). The turbo is a ebay T3(.63 A/R)/T4(.50 A/R) which according to the seller is rated for 350whp, calculated compressor trim is 44 (should flow ~ 35-37 lbs) . I agree that it is on the small side compared to the turbos some people use on this motors, but the goal is to make a fast and nice daily driver i.e. good power across the rpms combined with quick spool. Having said that I don't think I have exceeded the capacity of the turbo since it pulls very hard all the way to the rev limit. Also there was no knock at 26 deg. so I could have gone higher with the ignition timing, might try 28 - 30 deg. @ 0.5 once the snow has melted

. Hope to have it running @ 1 bar soon and hopefully put it on a dyno once its road tuned @ 1 bar.

P.S. anyone have g-tech gtp files of a 300E/300E turbo which we can compare ?

P.P.S and of course I'm considering a larger turbo but that's for a later time ..

Turbo E320 · #**101** 01-20-2010, 01:37 PM

Since your car is a manual you can get away with using a slightly bigger turbo without having to worry about lag since you can two-step/launch control it. My 60-1 only lags on the launch from an idel. Above 10 mph it doesn't lag at all.

If you got a T4 turbo charger with a .68 hotside you'd still have a very drivable car but with a lot more power gain.

Joreto · #**102** 01-20-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo E320

Since your car is a manual you can get away with using a slightly bigger turbo without having to worry about lag since you can two-step/launch control it. My 60-1 only lags on the launch from an idel. Above 10 mph it doesn't lag at all.

If you got a T4 turbo charger with a .68 hotside you'd still have a very drivable car but with a lot more power gain.

Well for later on thats exactly what I'm planing , actually I'm considering the T3 60-1 and a tubular header since there is a lot of space on the exhaust side with the m103 engine. As I understand it the t3 60-1 is good for 600+ hp.... but for the coming few months I'll see what I can get from this turbo at 1 bar.

Turbo E320 · #**103** 01-20-2010, 03:44 PM

One thing I've learned about turbo's is that you shouldn't focus on what power they can make when maxxed out. You should focus on what turbo will push the most air and remain usable. A 60-1 can make up to 575 hp on a 1.8-2.2L 4 cylinder but in order to get it to push that much requires a lot of psi.

If you want say 500 crank hp out of your m103 you'll need a turbo that can push at least 47 lbs of air per minute at 5500rpm or more if you mess with the timing and move the power range over. Not only will you need a turbo that can push that much air, you will need a turbo that can do so without needing to create a ton of boost pressure. The bigger the turbo, the less psi it needs to create a certain amount of lbs per minute of air.

For example, for a 60-1 to push 47 lbs of air you need to run 16-19psi.

Joreto · #**104** 01-20-2010, 04:23 PM

Actually I'll be aiming @ 400 - 450 hp, don't know if the stock m103 can handle more than that and be reliable, and honestly speaking it'll be hard to put even that power to the ground. Looking at the t3 60-1 compressor map, at 1 bar (PR 2.0) it flows more than 50 lbs, should be good for 450+ hp

Joreto · #**105** 02-01-2010, 01:44 AM

Finally got around to installing the boost control solenoid (from VAG), it's controlled by megasquirt and routed through a switch so I can have two settings - 0.5 bar when off and 1 bar when on. Now I just have to wait for some good weather and a dry road so I can tune the boost.