190E 3.0-12v Turbo - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

duxthe1 · #1 05-08-2009, 01:44 PM

The 103 is a great engine but out of the box it isn't a great long term turbo foundation. I bought my first TE with the mosselman twin turbo kit (.5 bar)installed and the engine blown.

Teardown revealed numerous problems.... excessive rod bearing clearances, broken rings, deformed ring lands, damaged head gasket and head. The previous owner had spent 24K$ in repairs at our shop before selling me the car so it wasn't neglected to get in that shape.

If the 603 oil pump gear is installed it will not raise the peak oil pressure, just reach it sooner with more volume. The maximum pressure is controlled by the relief valve spring, which will remain the same regardless of how fast the pump spins.

JayRash · #2 05-08-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duxthe1

The 103 is a great engine but out of the box it isn't a great long term turbo foundation. I bought my first TE with the mosselman twin turbo kit (.5 bar)installed and the engine blown.

Teardown revealed numerous problems.... excessive rod bearing clearances, broken rings, deformed ring lands, damaged head gasket and head. The previous owner had spent 24K$ in repairs at our shop before selling me the car so it wasn't neglected to get in that shape.

If the 603 oil pump gear is installed it will not raise the peak oil pressure, just reach it sooner with more volume. The maximum pressure is controlled by the relief valve spring, which will remain the same regardless of how fast the pump spins.

Its a discouraging post !!!!!, unfortunately it might be very true as my engine after 25k KM with the turbo kit suffered the following:
- 1st and 6th rod clearances were off
- piston 1 suffered broken ring.
- piston 1 has a very very slight deformation on the ring land.

But i have to admit that my car had very high mileage on it before the turbo kit. Then during the first few 1000 km with the kit, the engine ran lean at the top end with knock on every other full run.

even after ironing out almost all my issues with the alcohol kit my car still ran slightly lean from 3000 to 4000 rpm.
and i still believe that i used more water than i should have by mere mistake breaking my ring. Actually i also had a very weird issue, chlippo even got the chance to hear the knock my car used to have. It was an issue that i believe was due to excessive oil due to a blown turbo seal, and the knock would go away after a few part throttle runs (knock was only in when close to full throttle).

All this to say that if u properly tune the M103 turbo like Ed's setup and u will enjoy a reliable engine. Mess the tune abit and it will be expensive.
Duxthe1, I am leaning to the idea that the mosselman car had its enrichment system pack up, running lean and causing the damage. And all it needs is a few runs lean to have irreversible damage that will kill the engine eventually, even after sorting any fueling issues.

RBYCC · #3 05-08-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duxthe1

The 103 is a great engine but out of the box it isn't a great long term turbo foundation. I bought my first TE with the mosselman twin turbo kit (.5 bar)installed and the engine blown.

Teardown revealed numerous problems.... excessive rod bearing clearances, broken rings, deformed ring lands, damaged head gasket and head. The previous owner had spent 24K$ in repairs at our shop before selling me the car so it wasn't neglected to get in that shape.

If the 603 oil pump gear is installed it will not raise the peak oil pressure, just reach it sooner with more volume. The maximum pressure is controlled by the relief valve spring, which will remain the same regardless of how fast the pump spins.

Neither Willy Mosselman or Turbotechnics was able to solve the AFR dilemma under boost.
Mosselman used a proprietary controller that still had detonation problems under boost.
Turbotechnics went in the correct direction with additional injectors but did not have the ability to control them effectively with their piggyback unit.
They both resorted to pulling timing.

In late 2006 when I purchased a NOS TT kit, I sought out the only individual who knows how to make power with the KE-Jetronic.
In fact Willy Mosselman is on record that this individual made his turbos go faster then he could ( Autoweek August 17, 1987 )

It took a great deal of collaboration to determine the best way to maintain the KE as stock but yet get optimum AFR under boost.
Took a lot of R&D, trial and error and hours on a dyno.

The end result is still working very strong after two years and making more power with every adjustment made on a dyno.
In fact I run about a 6 degree advance over stock.

To say the M103 isn't a long term turbo foundation based on a junk engine you purchased shows a lack of knowledge of how many twin turbo M103's are still in service.
Initial installs go back to 1986 and many of the TT"s are documented with close to 200K miles.

The engine doesn't need any more oil, or a larger throttle body or the EZL or KE control to be fiddled with, not even a change over to EFI.....it just needs to have a control that will assure an AFR of around 11.7 under boost..

I'm running 5 second 60's and low 13's-108 using a G-Tech 3 axis accelerometer....and the car passed state emissions with flying colors !!!

And it will go faster with my next project which is getting more power to the ground...running around 340HP / 390 torque at the crank....in essence I've so far doubled the published horsepower.

Turbo E320 · #4 05-09-2009, 05:53 PM

Considering all that Roman and RBYCC have accomplished with m103's, being total opposites from one another, there isn't much to argue about turbo m103's or their power holding.

Roman took the modern approach for maximum power and RBYCC added only what he needed in order to have a stockish, super-reliable setup. The one thing that unifies the two is the fact that they kept their M103's in tip top shape, RBYCC owned his from day one off the showroom floor and Roman totally rebuilt his junkyard engine for big power from the start. RBYCC's is a testment to the reliability of the engine and Roman gave us piles of info on the tolerances of the engine. The stock engine has been revved to 10K+ rpm, boosted over 20psi, made well over 600rwhp and hammered on everywhere. The M103 is Mercedes' 2jz of engines.