In the Wis CD the engines should be the same, but you are right that the M104 is using a bit more oil, but htat has to do with the 24 valves and the higher revs at 7000.
If you use the power then it will use oil, other vice it will be the same as the M103 witch also uses a bit oil if runned at high revs.

A funny experience that I onced had where when these cars where faily new in the 1998 I went for a holiday and drove through Germany, and in every single gas station we made a stop for gasoline, a service gas station dude went over with a 1L. oil and asked if he should check the oil level.
And I meen who needs that in every stop so we asked why he dident offer this for some of the other customers, his answer was that is was well known that a mercedes is and should consume some oil drivin fast on the autobahn. many of there pendlers travels more than 500 Km each day to get to work and they tend to use up to 1L. for each 1000 Km. if you drive them above 160 Km/h raving down the auto bahn, they are simply design this way, and therefore they found it very usefull to offer the oil check because most mercedes would want this check anyway the way they use them there.
Just a funny story and I dont know the truth about it, but I do know I have driven a lot mercedes and they all tend to use a bit oil when pushing them down the autobahn and the M104 were a bit more but not much more oil hungry.
The main reason should be the head with the 24 valves my shop said he have repaired a lot of these heads and itīs always the steam seals valve seals that are the problems and very rare the valve guides. the M103 does have a bit problems with the valve guides and the cam that wear out rather quickly on the 260E and the 300E 150.000 Km. is not rare to see when the cam needs to be changed. again this problem is completely gone with the M104 3.0-24 so general the M104 is the engine to go for if you should point them out he said.
Well that was a bit of topic I went here, but still nice info.

You are right on the money there man. All mercs will use oil even the latest C63 AMG new from the showroom. My C36 AMG has it printed in the user manual that i should expect to see oil consumption at the rate of 1L+ per 1000km-1500km of hard driving.

And yes in the 24-head just like the 12-head of the M103 the main reason for increased oil consumption is the valve stem seals.
Mind you the 1989 and later M103 have better designed cams, guides and lifters. you cannot even use the new cam in an old engine unless you also change the lifters and rockers to the new ones.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

The pistons I have seen have the bore size stamped on the top and the piston clearance. The clearance will follow the letters "SP".

Yes my cylinders was measured to 92,20mm (Bad measurement)
The pistons was measured to be 92,15mm with no wear at all. (Bad measurement)

On the top of my pistons is written the following:

92,20 and on the other side is written 0,05

So this is just great news, and I wil only need new rings, but they are a bit ekspensive. 190 Euro for each piston rings set. and I need 6 pc.
So it will be a total of 1140 Euro for a complete set of rings.

But that is better than needing all 6 new pistons or needing to re bore the cylinders

6 new pistons is 710 Euro for each piston. 4260 Euro total so im very happy that not was the case.

Hey!,
So the pistons can be reused,thats good news!.
As for the rings they sounds very very expensive,are they being supplied by brabus?...or are you going to use MB rings?

Also i see you mentioned replacing the valves...did they really need replacing?..or did you just replace the valve guide seals?.

Paul

Hi,

The rings are not BRABUS but Mercedes parts as there is nothing special about them.

The valves had rocked in there valve seats and therefore there were marks or an "edge" on the end of the valves, there edges was not possible to remove without removing to much of the valves to be reused.
The inlet valve guides is changed by BRABUS from kobber to steal guides.
Thouse were just fine.
The outlet valve guides had to big tolerences and was replaced with new Mercedes Parts.
All valve guide seals is of cause replaced, but were acturely replaces for only 1 year ago when I changed all 24 hydraulic lifters without any effect to the consumtion of oil.

The whole head was sent for a rebuilt.
This includes:

disassembly of the cylinder head
Washing and ultrasonic cleaning
Level Grinding
Pressure test
New in and outlet valve Seats and machined
outlet Valves replaced with new ones
Inlet valves Glas blown and machined and polished.
Level Grinding of the head
assembly of cylinder head

All this work was ofcause left to the engineer at www.RMC-Motor.dk
He realy knows his job very well, he s also used by Mercedes Denmark and Sweden and Jaguar, Porsche and several others.
He is known in the Whole Nordic countries to be "the one" who can make the job when every ones else give up.

He have also made several BRABUS and AMG heads through his 30 years of experience in rebuilting and repair of cylinder heads.

Any way, im not going to use the pistons again, because the cylinder showed to much wear and had been rebored of the former owner so the pistons clearance is to great, so I will find an other M103 Block and Rebore it to 92,25mm and go with new JE Pistons 92,20mm
The old one was between 92,14 to 92,16 so they were worn out 0,04-0,06mm. as they should have been 92,20mm.

The bore was also re measured from 92,27mm to 92,29mm that gives a clearance of 0,09mm to 0,13mm and it should have been only 0,05mm
So both the pistons and the cylinder bore was i bit to big.
Some say it shouldent give problems, but the Engineer at RMC-Motor tells me to not go with a half solution that will end up giving me that same oil consumig problem and makes the piston rings brake again.

I guess he is right, so I will find a new Blok and bore it to theoriginal size of 92,25mm and go with JE forged pistons of 92,20mm.
Then I will have a complete new engine to last for at leats antoher 200.000 Km.

Expencive,,, just i bit, just i bit worth the money,,, Deffently every single coin

Attached Thumbnails

         

Wow,you have replaced alot of parts...including the very expensive lifters!.

Sounds like you have it all under control =)

My only advise is to be VERY careful what pistons you plan to run,from experience JE does not make a forged blank piston that has a similar skirt depth and has sufficent material to cut and make the piston locate the rod on the Mercedes engine.
The other issue is a JE forged piston will have a large piston to wall clearance and will wear much faster.
I wonder if Mahle(mercedes pistons supplier) would do a high pressure cast piston for you?..it might be worth a shot.Forged pistons are really not needed for the power you run,but thats just my opinion!.

This is what my JE piston looked like after 2000km's.,the wear is right through the machine marks.

hey man, can i ask u to measure the length of the rods on ur 3.6 and the main crank as well.
Any know whats the rod length of the 3.0 m103?

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

Ofcause you can it was my idea to make all the information available when i got the time to make all the measurements.

I know the stroke is 90mm and the rods are blue printet by brabus to make them lighter and to make the oil flow faster away from the rods I was told be the engineer at RMC-Motor

The crank is a steal crank from the 350SD (I think) the rods is still the orginal ones from the M104 engine (I think)
But you can see the rods Mercedes numer of one of the pictures
There is printed 201XXX just check my pictures.
The crank will be measured when I get it out, but it will be 2 or 3 weeks from now because I don+t have the time right now to continue with the projekt

But stay tuned and I will post everything and all data when finished

So wait you can use the M103 bottom end with a M104 head? Does it match up or did they make some changes to bolt patterns? Just curious.

__________________
2016 Monsoon Gray Audi Allroad - 21k
2008 Black Mercedes E350 4Matic Sport - 131k
2014 Jeep Wranger Unlimited Sahara - 62k
2003 Gray Mercedes ML350 - 122k

Realy I donīt know

But I think that the M103 engine arenīt born with piston bottom oil sprayers and I know the M104 is, and I have the oil sprayers, so realy I donīt know what and where it was modified, but for some reason even the 300E-24 models was not an angine makeover, they always seamed to use the M103 bottom end and reused the head.

For the W201 they built the BRABUS 3.6-24, that was never awailable in the 190 model, on the basis of the M103 2.6 engine and made that bigger bore and used a M104 head and a new steal crank with other pistons from Kolben Scmith and some other con rods.

Many peaple say that the crank comes from the 350SD but this crank has a stroke of 92,4mm. and all the brabus 3.6 modified engines all have 90,0mm stroke.
So brabus did make there own crank, it was only AMG that used the crank from the 350SD, and they have the axact same stroke 92,4mm

And for thouse who donīt know the problems that Mercedes ran into with this stroked diesel engine, then I can tell that many has suffer from huge oil cunsomtion, bad 1 cylinder shape over only 100.000 Km. and somehaw some of them managed to bend the rods or make huge wear on cyl. 1

A problem that mercedes didenīt realy wanna aknolage, but many canadians have had these problems becuase almost 75% of them was sold there.

So with that in my mind, I wuld be more carefull to by an E36 AMG than bying a BRABUS 3.6 but who says that the AMG suffers from the same problems that the diesel engines suffert from

Just an interesting thought.

i would imagine that the amg 3.6 had a comp ratio of around 10 or 11 or one, wich is about the right number for a hi-po n/a petrol engine.
desils run around 17 to one even with a turbo( my alfa 147 19 tdi ducati corse is 17.5 to 1 and fitted with a turbo), wich will explain why some of the 350's have problems.
using a desil component for a petrol engine is a good idea due to the much lower(relitive) comp ratios.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

I dont think the m104 3.6AMG has any of the issues mentioned above. I drive my AMG daily giving its engine a beating every chance i get, i ever have semi-slicks Toyo R888 on it now, and i ripp up my favorite mountain highway (the one in my utube vid) and oil consumption is just like its manual says it should be.
I also have oil temp gauges for both the engine and the gearbox, and even after such flatout runs temps are always in check. The engine oil has never crossed 95C' and the gearbox even at such abuse maxes at 100C'.

i think its a really good engine.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

exactly, the crank from an engine designed for very high (17. whatever to one) comp ratio's, but only running 10 or 11 to one = very reliable and strong.

merc engines use very short (relitive) skirts, so with massive comp ratios(350 d), will be, i would imagine, prone to twisting.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Are your piston bores iron or aluminum?