Exhaust,Quiet high flow? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Pagz · #1 10-23-2009, 02:23 AM

Hi all,

It seems exhaust noise level and outright flow go hand and hand in most performance based situations...this is great if you want noise,but what if your like me and just want performance without the attention around town?

Its getting hard to recall just how many different systems and mufflers i have tried on this car over the years though the C36 muffler i ran was definitely the quietest and possibly the most restrictive,though the magnaflow turbo muffler i tried seemed almost as retrictive it actually increased the exhaust noise Vs its same size straight through glass pack alternative!!!.

At the moment i run a 3" straight through system,no chambers,just glass pack Magnaflow mufflers,its not too loud quite similar to most Evo's with cat delete and a 3" cat back exhaust.

The 202 has quite a large space for the rear muffler,infact its almost large enough to fit 2.5 times the size muffler i have in there which is a 8x5x18".

Sooo iv been thinking,the E36 to name one,uses a buttefly valve to restrict flow at idle or in intake vaccum conditions via a solinoid setup.

What if i was to make the butterfly simply divert flow through another muffler than back into the original...sort of a reverse flow design,then have the butterfly actuated with a 5.5psi diaphram so that it only opens when you have a resonable amount of throttle?(combined with a one way bleed off so it doesnt slam shut between gears)...another option is to open it electronicly but im not so keen as its just more frigging with the ECU outputs.

Any opinions?...anyone see potential problems with this(apart from an overal increase in restriction over the original system),has anyone done somthing similar?

Drawing,black is how it is at the moment,blue is obvioulsy sound absortion areas and purple the potential add on,the 14210 only comes in 2.5" so it will be fairly more restrictive when diverted.

cheers,
Paul

JayRash · #2 10-23-2009, 05:08 AM

PAGz

So u think i should look for another muffler for my 36AMG?? is it that restrictive?
Its an NA engine after all so maybe if i run strtthru no chambers, gians will be minimal! what do u think?

Pagz · #3 10-23-2009, 06:12 PM

Hi Jay,
Im sure even though your N/A there would be some gains to be had with increasing the flow from the C36 muffler as its primarily there to quieten it down ...i guess the best way would be to test pressure prior to the muffler inlet and see just how restrictive it is for the 3.6 engine,i know its a pain to do but so is chopping it off and finding out all other mufflers dont meet your expectations!.

When i trialed a magnaflow 3" turbo muffler recently(thinking it would kill all that noise with its chambers) cabin noise actually increased!!,the increase in pressure seemed fairly high also...boost responce and power decrease was easily felt,also there was a whistling noise from the V-bands being under pressure.
Reinstalled the straight through glass-pack and things were much smoother/quieter...theres to many variables like engine displacment,amount of cylinders,pipe size and bends,quality of work,muffler sizes and quality of packing so unless someone had your exact setup with the exhaust your trying to fit,theres really no way of telling just what the outcome will be untill you on road test it which has been a costly thing for me so far.

Roncallo · #4 10-24-2009, 07:57 PM

I think it will work great depending on whats in the 14210. Who makes the 14210. Is it a full mufler or a unrestricted 180 as shown.? I wouldent wory about the 2.5". You could always set it up so it opens the valve at WOT.

Pagz · #5 10-25-2009, 12:31 AM

Cool,and as you say,maybe we could run it off an output on the ECU so is actuated as a specific throttle position,however im a bit dubious about the electronic valves that are available,how fast they actuate and if they make a clunky noise when they do(plus i have a 5.5psi actuator of an old turbo lying around)

the 14210 is a magnaflow muffler...i contacted magnaflow earlier this week to find out what was inside it,as if it was a simple chamber at the end i might have got a dual straight through and just added the 180,however they sent me back this:

The 180 is a proper 2.5" U bend,the drawing shows the pressed welded areas hence why the bend looks so large.
Why they cant have this info on there website im not sure!.

The part im most concerned about is loss of initial boost response if you are going WOT...but i guess the 2.5 U shouldn't be too restrictive low down in the RPM!?!.

Cheers,
Paul

Roncallo · #6 10-25-2009, 08:28 AM

Thats my thought. Until the turbo starts to do something 2.5" is fine. You also might consider the solution I chose, which is a simple v band clamp and 2 rubber rings to change out the exhaust.

I'm still trying to figure out what to do about a quiet solution because that 129 muffler on the 107 is "Captain Ugliness", and not nearly as quiet as the original 600SL without its center muffler. I also intend to build a clamp on open pipe, because a V12 uncorked sounds really crisp.

RBYCC · #7 10-25-2009, 11:14 AM

I've reread you initial post several times and still not sure what you're trying to accomplish with the addition of the Magnaflow 14210.

Turbo engines suffer from additional restriction/back pressure as they do not need the same flow/scavenging that a NA motor requires.

Optimum turbo power is achieved with minimal restriction in the exhaust system

I run two 2" down pipes, one from each turbo...two pipes then run to individual Magnaflow spun metal cats then on to the middle silencer and finally to the rear silencer.
The silencers were supplied by TurboTechnics and don't appear to be anything special.

Exhaust note is not much louder then stock, yet I'm producing a great deal of power.

I still fail to see what you're trying to achieve with the bypass and the 14210 reverse flow muffler.

Pagz · #8 10-26-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roncallo

Thats my thought. Until the turbo starts to do something 2.5" is fine. You also might consider the solution I chose, which is a simple v band clamp and 2 rubber rings to change out the exhaust.

I'm still trying to figure out what to do about a quiet solution because that 129 muffler on the 107 is "Captain Ugliness", and not nearly as quiet as the original 600SL without its center muffler. I also intend to build a clamp on open pipe, because a V12 uncorked sounds really crisp.

Nice Job,this looks really not ugly:

I see what your doing there,i did originally think maybe i should build a very quiet restrictive system with a cutout that opens when required(either that or make a quick swap out system like you have)...having a cutout is a problem though and i wouldn't pass the WOF inspection.
The current exhaust i have has been certified at 93Db@4000rpm,thats right on the limit in our country.

After speaking to a few exhaust companies it seems that the 4 cylinder engines are harder to keep quiet with large diameter exhausts than say a 6 or 8...im not sure why this is but at a guess the exhaust pulses on the 6's/8's must have some sort of canceling effect to some degree??

Bet that 12 does sounds crisp

Cheers,
Paul

Pagz · #9 10-26-2009, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBYCC

I've reread you initial post several times and still not sure what you're trying to accomplish with the addition of the Magnaflow 14210.

Turbo engines suffer from additional restriction/back pressure as they do not need the same flow/scavenging that a NA motor requires.

Optimum turbo power is achieved with minimal restriction in the exhaust system

I run two 2" down pipes, one from each turbo...two pipes then run to individual Magnaflow spun metal cats then on to the middle silencer and finally to the rear silencer.
The silencers were supplied by TurboTechnics and don't appear to be anything special.

Exhaust note is not much louder then stock, yet I'm producing a great deal of power.

I still fail to see what you're trying to achieve with the bypass and the 14210 reverse flow muffler.

Hi,
Im trying to achieve a quiet exhaust system that does not restrict exhaust flow much when i want power.

cheers,
Paul

Turbo E320 · #10 10-26-2009, 09:38 AM

Insert Xforce Varex electric cutout muffler

Pagz · #11 10-26-2009, 10:07 PM

Thanks,Yes have seen those.
Initially I had a plan to build twin butterflies on the outlet of the rear muffler,while that does work well to kill noise(Like stuffing a rag in one of the tips)this focuses primarily on restriction to supress,which would likely hinder boost responce the most out of all other ways to do it,so im hoping the 2.5" reverse flow absortion idea is sort of a comprimise between noise and boost responce.

The restriction method also seems to sound the worst...i guess thats a product of trying to squeez a large volume of air out a tiny hole

Also because i run off maps...things would get tricky if i wanted to run an electric cutout...we would almost need to have two completely seperate maps setup so when you activate it you switch to the correct map...this was apparent when i plugged one of the tips and took it for a test drive...she wasnt too happy about it and it still had a ~2.4" pipe out the rear.

So the theory is to build the bypass system with a 5.5psi actuator so its automated and somewhat consistant with throttle position and then get it retuned.

Another thought is how to build the butterfly?...do i build it with plenty of clearance to rotate and hope for no whistling noises...or build it tight fit and hope it doesnt bind up when it gets hot!(could also build a flap type diverter but it gets a bit more tricky)

thanks guys,
Paul

Turbo E320 · #12 10-27-2009, 12:04 AM

Insert Sound Performance Boost Activated Exhaust Cutout or SPBAEC for short lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C556EHYUijA

Pagz · #13 10-27-2009, 01:10 AM

Perfect

I was planning to build one but if there a reasonable price that SP item is ideal!.

Edit: think ill make one^^ http://www.spracingonline.com/store/SP_Exhaust_Cutout__Boost_Activated___3_inch/3673

Turbo E320 · #14 10-27-2009, 08:47 PM

Yea lol it was for supra owners so you pretty much expect it to be over priced

Turbo E320 · #15 10-27-2009, 10:47 PM

INSERT APEXI ECV! This has a more resonable price($125-$250). Can be controlled via throttle, cable or with a solenoid of some sort(wastegate, electric, blah).

80mm - $150

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/APEXI-80MM-FLANGE-ECV-EXHAUST-CONTROL-VALVE-SILENCER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518b9b5130QQitemZ350234562864QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5 fAccessories