M104 Cylinder Head differences... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MAG58 · #1 01-19-2010, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

If the external ribs weren't of some benefit, M.B. would not have spent the tooling money to add them. I've seen the same thing occur with the AMC I6 as it has evolved through the years to become the Jeep 4.0 and gained power, additional external ribs have been added. Again, they wouldn't have spent the tooling money if there wasn't a benefit. Car companies are disgustingly cheap.

If the 3.4 AMG was the hot set up, there never would have been a 3.6 AMG.

You're also assuming that everything was done in the sake of performance.

You have to remember, that even in a company that produces the product that Mercedes does, the final vehicle design is determined by their crack team of accountants. I'm personally of the belief that the M104 is better than the M112, but that's just me.

Anyway, back to the block, The later model blocks have seen 500hp, but Pumpish is pushing his M103 (which is the same block as the .980) to well over 650hp on stock internals before still using the stock block and crank to get to 1k. I'm not saying the later block is weaker, nobody has tested one to failure (save for a C36 block and that was due more to cylinder wall thickness). Next time I get the chance, i want to weigh and check the thickness of the blocks, as I'm willing to bet that NVH and overall amount of material in the later blocks will both be large factors in this. Since these blocks still are so similar, the tooling cost wouldn't be that much different considering the massive scale on which these engines were made.

And have you ever considered that AMG went from the 3.4L .980 based motor to the 3.6L .940 based motor because they stopped producing the .980 motor?

JayRash · #2 01-19-2010, 03:23 AM

Eric, i know but even the 3.0 and 3.2 of the same yrs made alot more power (286Hp & 321HP). i have also seen an e46 2002 M3 engine taken apart and the the details in the head are amazing. I mean the Airbox has individual plastic cones that feed each cyl perfectly, i bet they r sprayed by teflon to make them as slipery as can be. then the cam rocker are so thin you would think they will break in ur hands. i wish i had taken pics back then cause its just a sight. The pistons are so light and thin, its made like a race engine.

I am more than sure that the AMG engines will out live any M3.

Below guys are a few docs to show what AMG does to the Blocks to make them 3.6
AMG BLOCK MOD.pdf

::: The 3.6 was created mainly as response to Brabus's 3.6-24 engine that made 280hp and was fitted to the W202 cars among others. Btw Carlsson has pushed this engine to 3.7 and has 2 setups. one that makes just short of 300HP and another whose pic is here makes 316 hp.