I believe the non-ASR cars (both 6cyl and V8) have the same axles, but the ASR axles are thicker (for both 6cyl and V8). If your car and the donor subframe were both non-ASR, then yes, they are probably the same diameter.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Yes both are non asr. I was looking at a 300sl today and it also has the same subframe and the diff housing looked just like the 400e one but it had a 3.67 rear end in it. I did not get a chance to check the carrier number today. I am going to try and start swapping parts when ever I get a chance to see what all will fit.

sorry for the delay in answering, i work away in the week.
afaik the diff is the asr one, it has hoses from the front into it, and a nipple like a brake pipe in the lhs. the halfshafts are out of later 124's.

can you clarify, the early 129 500's have the e500/500e parts, wich will fit straight onto a 124, and the later sl's have reinforced diffs etc off later car?... can the whole shebang from the later 129 be fitted to a 124?

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

That is an ASD diff, not ASR. ASD is a hydraulic locking diff. You can read more about these systems in this PDF document. ASR has no hoses, just two electrical sensors at the top of each output flange.



Correct. Details are in this PDF file.


I have no idea, but I doubt it would be a simple swap. And as I mentioned before, I think that trying to fit the later "reinforced" diffs (with 1.4L or 1.6L fluid capacity) is a waste of time and money. I have never, ever heard of anyone blowing up the standard 400E/500E differential or axles, not even with 500hp/500tq. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

if the diff has a metal thin tube from one side to the other and has the brake bleed like nip, its an ASD (oil pressure activated LSD, thus the reason for the bleed nipp) one not ASR, thus it has only one ABS speed sensor, whereas the ASR one has 2 sensors.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

ok thanks for clarifiying that, is an early sl500 swap the best thing for me then? does the early 500sl does not have the same type of diff as mine, but will the halfshafts fit???

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

no v8 merc had the ASD diff, and i would safely say that all old SL500s had ASR on them, where as the W140s v8s had a few (very early ones) ASR free ie open diff and no sort of traction.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

Nick, I will have to double check the subframe part numbers. But you might be on to something. The late w129 subframes should bolt in just the same. If this gets you into a newer differential that you can buy a quaife for that would be the right way to go. If not then there is not a lot of point to it unless it is all that is avail.
GSXR, I agree that the 210mm ring gear is probably good to the power numbers you and I are going to be making but it is an open diff and I want posi. I am going to look more at the factory lsd conversion because I can get one cheap. But I still want higher gear ratios. The main reason that I want to go with a later style diff is the ease of getting the quaife unit and I think it will just bolt in. I am going to order in some diff covers and compare bolt patterns.
Also I am pretty sure that there is a good chance that I could get Richmond gears for the later 210mm gears from the Chrysler lx platform. That last w129 diff with the 220 case number is the right direction. I have a customer that is working on this for his clk55. I would love the posi and the 3.69 gears from the 300sl. That matched up with some drag radials and I should be able to launch this car. I would love to cut a sub 1.6 60' time. Right now I can not get below 2.2 due to my peg leg.

Yes, but you can buy the posi unit for them. I built a 210mm LSD for my E500 last winter and raced it all last year, it works great.



The factory clutch-type LSD is also available for higher numerical ratios in the 210mm size for 124/129 diffs, as noted in my spreadsheet.



Yes - that is one advantage, the Quaifes are available for a few late model diffs, although I'm not sure if they make one for the gear ratio you want. A custom spacer may (or may not) fix this.


My E500, which is heavier than your car, has managed a 2.05 time for 60' and that's with a 2.65 LSD and street tires. If you want to get down to 1.60 (!!!) or better, you'll definitely need some massively lower gears, and drag radials too hook it up. Probably a high-stall torque converter as well. This will help your ET of course, but not change the trap speed. With decent tires and LSD, your lighter car should be quicker than 2.00 at launch even without the gearing change. Unless perhaps the 6-cyl is lacking in torque at launch, compared to the M119....

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Nick, what year is your "CE 320"? If it is 1990-up with the M104 engine, you already have the 210mm diff, same as the early SL500 / 500E. And in that case, you don't need to upgrade anything, except to add LSD or change gear ratios..

it is the 320 amg widebody featured in the 1990 'car' mag with the 'members only' advert.
engine is 3.2l 12v (103 with 104 crank)with amg big valve head, i have since fitted h beam rods with apr bolts forged l/c pistons, full m/s standalone to fuel turbo technics twin turbos and manifolds throug a custom fuel rail and 345lph fuel pump.

i am about to fit meth injection and air to water charge cooler.

the rear end is as from factory with the hydralic diff as discussed above, the running gear is getrag dog leg box with late large donut three bolt (105mm centers) front prop, lucky find at brakers, not sure what its off! mated with older small donut (95mm centers) longer rear prop piece. i have a later 104 engined rear prop section and brackets, wich runns the bigger donut, but need to get lucky again with an even longer front piece before i can use it.

i am now doing amg black series brake upgrade, the front is bolt on and i have already done it with two piece brabus 355mm rotors from 220 series and amg black series 6 pot calipers.

rear brakes are going to be std disks cut down to make carrier for larger slotted and vented disk, with black series calipers, but they are not easy fit like the fronts, because they have wider bolt centers, so i need to make adapter piece to fit, might swap the rear calipers for 210 amg 55 one, wich fit straight on due to having same centers as 124, 107, 129 etc...

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Ah, ok... I think I get it. It sounds like that is a 124.050 chassis with an M103 engine, which would have the smaller 185mm ring gear and 1.1L housing. But, it is an ASD diff, which has limited-slip with hydraulic locking, actually a pretty decent unit... just not as strong as you might like for ~300hp. Personally, I'd probably leave it alone and drive it until it blows up, and then replace it. It could last a very long time. The LSD clutches could probably use a refresh though. They are usually toast by 100kmi, or less with hard use.

But anyway, yes, the 500E/500SL parts are much larger & stronger, and plenty stout for a turbo M103/M104 engine. There is even an ASD hydraulic locking diff available from a W140, and since your car appears to have ASD, this is exactly what I would do - swap in the 210mm ASD diff from the W140. It's basically the same as the 500E/500SL setup but with the hydraulics added. It should bolt up if you use the appropriate rear diff cover, and input/output flanges. This would retain your factory electronic-controlled hydraulic locking ASD diff, which would be very cool. The W140 ASD diff was an option in the 140.134 diesel. It has a 2.82 gear ratio. These are available used in the USA for about $400 USD, but if you are outside the USA, shipping overseas would likely cost another $300-$400, ouch. I don't know how common these are in Europe or elsewhere. If you do buy a used one, you'll need to replace the clutch pack prior to installation, as the friction discs are almost always worn out. Photos of my ASD/LSD clutch refresh are at this link.

BTW - the early 500SL (129.066) had ASR as optional, so those diffs are available in either ABS or ASR flavors, with 2.65 gears.

Dave,
I know we kinda covered this, but can i ask you to explain what i need to do to make my AMG's 2.87 diff into LSD, i really need LSD with my same ratio, and my diff has no speed sensors since i have ASR/V which has the speed sensors on the wheel hubs.

i mean if u managed to LSD ur W124, how different can my diff of a 1995 C36 be?

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

thank you gsxr. brill info and just what i was after.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

So you are using the asd carrier as a lsd. The only high numeric unit I could find is the 300sl asd carrier with 3.46 gears. I checked and it is around 2000.00, which is not to bad for the complete unit bolt in ready. I think that I would probably pursue the quaife route instead for this money unless I can find one cheap used. Not an easy task. I may just go source a lsd out of a 560 and make a shim for it. I need to find some solution. The main problem I discovered on the qdf5v unit from quaife is that there is no way of knowing what gears go on that thing. The flange is almost 3 times as thick as the 2.24 one. I am going to have to take my 3.27 apart and measure that flange and see how it compares.
Anyway I have to take a break on this for a week or two and build an aan motor for a rally audi quattro coupe. New forged internals. Hopefully it will last longer than the last one.
If I find any more info out I will post. Also GSXR, let me know on the other lsd carrier and what gears it holds. I could not see another one on the spread sheet.
Thanks,