All our cars runs with a triggerwheel instead the balance wheel and we never had any problem
All cars run över 7000rpm and several of this cars has allready been runing over 3 years.

Check DTM 190-2.5-15v , all of them run without balance wheel at 12000 rpm.

Balancewheel is made most like a heavy flywheel to make smooter curve of the engine when RPM goes down

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the site i visited that spaoke of the porsche rs engines described how they had extra thick flanges around the mains, wich allowed them to run without harmaonic balancers, i wonder if the cranks we have are like everything else about these cars, and over engineered?

i am confused now, as romans experiance and advice says the balancer is not needed, but other sources say it is needed.... what to do?

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

keep it on, if u can

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

Nick

I would have more confidence in the ones who designed the motor over those that attempt to modify it.

The damper is "tuned" to cancel out certain harmonics...
The frequency of the harmoninc requires special equipment that goes far beyond the ability and comprehension of the "tuner" you reference.

Takes time for the crank to stress but keep in mind when it fails it goes all at once.

I would be curious if any of the cranks running at high rpm/hp without the damper have ever been magnafluxed after accumulated miles ?

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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES

I have both, damper and triggerwheel. Triggerwheel sits by its tight centre hole right next to damper. Tighten by longer bolts to centre section which is solid.

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ed, i feel everything you say,

i ask ngk, japan, about plugs, and heat ranges, they say every 100bhp that the power is increased, raise one heat range, others use std plugs for 650 bhp.

my car struggles with std pump for fuel, with std f pump, others make mega hp.

i investigate fuel pumps, the evidence says improve over std, others make power with std.

i investigate crank damper, all engines except for Porsche 2.7 rs use damper or fail, others say dont use it for 7000 rpm over three years...

i am very confused.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Interesting topic, I've also modified my crank damper in order to accept the 60-2 trigger wheel. I've had no problems till now....long term, guess we will see ....

__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

joreto, what mods have you done? is it in the bin, or still on but smaller, or what?

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Nick, it's still on but I machined it so that I could press a 60-2 trigger wheel from a BMW on to it .

__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

ok, doesnt help me in my plight, to repalce it and all the **** that goes with it, or forget it and hope the engine holds...

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Stock BMW 60-2 triggerwheels and some other models is made of some kind of gast iron metal and the metal is not so good and can lose magnetism sometime. Even stock BMW had many problems with triggersignal.
Weaker triggersignal make less volt power out tothe ECU and it means that the whole system does not work to 100%, both fuel and power of ignition.

I allways recomend triggerwheels made of pure steal and I use only the same material of all my triggerwheels i sell together with a aftermarket sensor which allways work to 100% with pure metal



And about all this talk that you can not replace stock damper and people on the internet allways only "belive" that it does not work and you can damage you crank.

I wanna se 1 person who damaged his crank by removing the damperwheel from his mercedes

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MB 300E 24v Turbo MS3X


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I do not see the point really of dropping the weight off of the crank pulley. It is very small in diameter and the effect would be almost impossible to detect. Rotating mass at this diameter does not take very much energy to spin. The flywheel on the other hand is much larger in diameter and the effects would be much greater. I guess if you are going for those last few tenths of a hp this would be worth it but I can not imagine that it would ever show up on a dyno.
As far as the 60-2 teeth trigger wheel. Just use a factory one. The m111 and m104 used a stock 60-2 teeth wheel. The m119 did also. These could be adapted with ease to the older cars. I put one in mine a while back and use the stock crank sensor location. The bigger trigger wheel is better also for accuracy
especially at high rpms. I recently switched to a digital sensor and love it because the interference from the starter and the coils is not a problem. Electromotive is very sensitive to AC noise.

i didn't remove the damper for more power, the trigger wheel i have doesn't fit with the damper, its one or the other.

i have significantly lightened the flywheel.

on test last night, i revved it to 7200rpm, repeatedly. (car is scary fast) it didn't break, and, i respect roman and his opinion, it is just hard to forget all the other evidence saying that the damper is needed for reliability.

I do think merc fitted it for smoothness first and foremost, these cars weren't racing cars, they were expensive smooth cruisers.

as roman says, show one engine that has failed for not having it on, its just i dont want it to be mine that blows.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Nick,

I have read it on the W202 AMG forums in MBworld, but they hadn't just removed the pully but rather replaced it with an alum one, so may be its this that caused the issues. maybe having off is not that bad vs having a modified one. and maybe it only caused the issues when it was in the phase of breaking off, where it prolly had become wobbly and seriously unbalanced.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

Damper does not help at all when balance is failed.

It might help only cranckshafts rotation resonating cams and belt against flywheel mass.
Im sure there is rpm points where this takes place in theory, but...

My opinion

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500whp.net