16v turbo project + info - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Alain V. · #1 06-12-2002, 11:13 PM

Sorry guys, but I can't find the old thread that we were discussing this stuff on.

Anyways, I have Priest's turbo 16v nearly done. Hopefully it will be ready for him by tomorrow evening. I have become "swamped" lately with other work ,and had to put his project on hold for a week or two. He has also been showing up with more and more toys for me to install, which took a little extra time.

The plan is to deliver the car to him tomorrow so he can take it to a big show in Kansas City this week end.

I should have alot of really cool pics by Monday , that I'll send to Jim Villers and kindly ask him to post on his site for me.

The engine compartment in the car is really cool, and it feels really strong. Priest told me he'd make an appointment with the local dynojet guys as soon as we can coordinate our schedules.

For those of you who wanted prices on the Mosselman kit for a 16v. They are currently 4800. list price.......
.....I have some ideas for making a "discount" , but need to talk to Mosselman first before I can discuss those plans further.
Thank you for your patience.

on a side note,,,,,,, I finally finished making the rear arms for my Delsing 3 piece sway bars and tried them on my racecar.

The sway bars made it a whole different car !!!!
Heck, it took me a whole 20 minute session just to re-learn how to drive the thing!
I now have no- I mean absolutely ZERO understeer!!!
The car is soooo much more stable and easy to drive in the slow-tight corners it is unbelievable!

I did lose some high speed corner "comfort" as the rear end is now easier to break loose. (actually- I think it's time for some new rubber) the rear might just be a hair too firm. You do need to be really quick to catch it if it starts co come around now.
(I found this out as I spun at turn 11 at HPT in the middle of my race.) Felt pretty dumb, as I haven't spun out in a long time.

To sum it up- WOW! No more push that eventually overheats the front tires, but I need to "fine tune" it to optimize the set up.
Big thanks to Delsing Motorsports! I should have put these on a long time ago.

so many projects, so little time....Alain V.

yhliem · #2 06-13-2002, 04:44 AM

Glad you got those on finally, Alain.

Too bad Delsing's not around anymore

jasondew · #3 06-13-2002, 06:17 AM

so Dave did end up coming up with a rear anti-sway bar? last i remember, his sit said he was still working on it. do you have to remove that whole rear subframe to get the rear bar on? i have been contemplating upgrading to the eibach bars front and rear but don't want to do the front, which is an easy install, unless i can match the rear, which doesn't look like an easy job.

you don't by chance have Dave at Delsing's contact info do you? there are some people dying to get ahold of a few of his products.

if you send those pics to me i'll make sure Andres puts them on the 190 Revolution. that is, if you guys don't mind a little extra coverage.

i'm intrigued about this "discount" you speak of, but that can wait until Mosselman gets back to you.

dew
2.3 16

Alain V. · #4 06-13-2002, 06:30 AM

The front bar was a finished product from Dave, but the rear was not totally finished from him. Since he had sold his 190, I had to do the final fit & finish of the rear arms myself. This turned out to be a PITA because it is very easy to have the stuff either crash/bind since there isn't much room.

I didn't have to remove the rear subframe to install the bar, because I cut my original rear sway bar into pieces in order to remove it. The Delsing unit is a straight bar with removeable ends so the bar itself bolted right up.

I know Dave was thinking of quitting but wasn't sure if he had or not. I bet that the small demand for his stuff compared to the time involved in making it didn't help.

I know he still had some parts left, the last e-mail address I had for him is Delsingmtsp@aol.com

I'll send pics to you for the 190 site, Jason,,,,,,it had been so long since I heard from Clinton, that I didn't know the 190 site was still around.

jasondew · #5 06-13-2002, 07:14 PM

clinton doesn't post much anymore. andres inherited the site from him and now does the maintenance. but, yep the site is still there and going as strong as ever. the only problem is that without a "premium" subscription you can only search back like 3 months. not a big deal since i've read every post on that entire site more than once but still not ideal to reference old threads.

later

dew
2.3 16

Dan16V · #6 06-14-2002, 10:54 AM

Alain,
Which rear swaybar did you have on the racecar before? Is the Delsing bar adjustable?

Later,

Alain V. · #7 06-14-2002, 10:19 PM

I used to have a stock 16v rear bar with a 500e front.
The rear bar is adjustable for pre-load, but not for tension,,,,,yet.
I am going to try & make longer arms with a "sliding clamp" so that I can adjust it.

jasondew · #8 06-15-2002, 12:18 AM

how did the car handle with the 500e bar in front and stock rear? i would like to reduce the body roll of my 16v but i don't want to do it at the expense of adding a bunch of understeer. if i installed a 500e front bar could i dial in enough rear shock compression with my Koni Sport Adjustables to compensate for the understeer from the front bar? i could even back off on the compression of my front struts a little too. and there's always tire pressure. but, i don't want to perform a mod that will require a bunch of sensitive front/rear tuning. after all it is a street car.

thanks as always.

dew
2.3 16

Alain V. · #9 06-15-2002, 12:24 AM

The stock rear-500e front set up works fine for a street car because you can't drive anywhere near as hard on the street as you can on the track w/real comp tires.

I run a four pound tire pressure difference in my car. Normally four pounds more in the front than in the rear.

Did you get the zip file w/ pics of Priests car?

jasondew · #10 06-15-2002, 08:20 AM

i got your first email but not the one with the zip.

how much did you pay for the 500e bar and where did you source it? i am interested in making this plus tower braces front and rear my next mod after i redo my squishy brakes.

thanks

dew
2.3 16

jasondew · #11 06-15-2002, 08:22 AM

Dan,

i haven't heard much from you in a while. last i knew you were contemplating selling your 16v. how's that mean machine treating you? you still trying to get rid of it? turbo on yet?

later

Jim Villers · #12 06-15-2002, 11:51 AM

I received the pictures from Alan and have updated his page on Priest's Turbo Project

I had also noticed that Dave Delsing had removed his page which advertized 16 valve modifications. Like the rest of you, I would like to stiffen up the roll of the car.

Glen · #13 06-15-2002, 09:18 PM

Jim:
Thanks for posting the pictures.

Alain:
The install looks really nice. Great work!

Maddog · #14 06-16-2002, 08:59 PM

How are stiffness of the sway bars and understeer/oversteer related?

Alain V. · #15 06-16-2002, 09:22 PM

Jason, I usually just buy 500e front bars brand new from MBZ with the bushings & hardware.
Believe it or not, they are actually pretty cheap. You should be able to get the complete assembly for 150-ish (if I remember right)

Maddog- stiffer front bar=more understeer (push)
stiffer rear bar= more oversteer

The problem with 190s as most stock production vehicles is that they will understeer when pushed to the limit on the track.
A stock 16v is actually a pretty good handling car, but has quite a bit of body roll.

Adding a thicker front bar (like one from a 500e) is an easy mod that can be done in around an hour.
The rear bar though, is a pain in the butt to replace because it fits "between" the rear subframe and the body.

In order to truly minimize body roll and keep the car handling right, you need a larger rear bar.
Removing the old one is not too big a deal if you are willing to cut the ends off of it in order to get it out of the car.
The big issue is to get something back onto the car.

This is where the three piece set up works great.
The bar is just a straight tube that is splined on each end.
Once it is mounted you bolt the end arms on a it is done.
.....only nobody makes "bolt on end arms",,,,,not even Delsing, as I had to work bend-weld etc along time to get mine to work properly.

I think one good solution is to do what Rick at RC imports does when he builds his racecars, which is to install an evo2 rear sway bar on the car. Of course this is labor intensive because you will have to move your subframe to do it.

I've approached specialty suspension manufacturers about making stuff for 190s, but they are only interested in tooling up to make stuff like that if they can sell large quantities.

The simple truth is that there are alot more guys out there playing with Z cars and 911s than with 190s, so our stuff will never be "bolt-on" without a high price.

This is one reason I really hoped Dave (Delsing motorsports) would hang in there and maybe eventually get enough enthusiasts using his parts, that it would be worth his time/money invested. Unforunately, it looks like it didn't work out that way.
Too bad, because he does some of the cleanest, most well thought out fabrication that I've seen in a long time.
His rear suspension links make the RennTech ones look totally amatuer!

Too bad someone like RennTech or other MBZ parts place didn't think to contract with Dave to make a bunch of parts.