C43 -- Disaster - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

suginami · #16 07-17-2002, 06:30 PM

I don't know how you would set an amount for the loss in value to the car because of the wreck.

Put it this way - it you put a 99 C43 AMG up for sale (like yours) it would be worth 39-43k.

But if a 99 C43 AMG was put up for sale with an accident history, what would people pay for it? 35? 30? 25? 20? It's worth whatever the market will bear, whatever someone is willing to pay for it. At what diminshed value will someone say "Gee? It's been in a terrible wreck but looks perfect. Hmmmm, If I can get this car for say, $20k, it might be worth the risk of the car not being "right".

That's the question.

jjrodger · #17 08-09-2002, 03:00 AM

Any news?

Tump · #18 08-09-2002, 03:41 PM

The insurance co. called me today and wanted to know how much I paid for the 99 C43 originally from Benz and quote: "what I'm looking to get for my diminished value claim" so that they can present it to senior management and settle with me this week.

Talking to a number of people, mechanics, used MB dealers and an MB dealer himself I came up with a wide range for my diminished value claim. Their estimates range from $8,000.00 to $26,000.00.

Given that I paid $36,000 for the car plus $2,100.00 for the CD and Starmark extension totalling $38,100.00 I believe that I will settle for between $13,000.00 and $18,000.00.

Any ideas on what a good settlement figure is? and how best to cause the insurance co. to settle without resorting to any litigation (I'm a lawyer and their legal dept already told them to settle; the only remaining question is for how much?)?

The shop says my car should be ready in one to two weeks from now. Repairs cost a total of about $18,000. Involving replacing the rear sub-frame, rear trunk base, rear driver's quarter panel and all rear driver's side suspension components, including two AMG monblock wheels and painting the roof, two rear doors and rear of the car.

Any help would be appreciated.

Marc
99 C43AMG (for 1 hour)
mmclaw@optonline.net

suginami · #19 08-09-2002, 03:48 PM

I don't know how anyone can determine the diminished value.

I guess I would contact an appraiser and have him give you a certified appraisal of your car with the accident / repair history.

JimSmith · #20 08-09-2002, 05:02 PM

See what the dealer, who knows the whole story, will give you in trade on a new C32 or E55. That would be an indication of the actual value. You owned the car for less than an hour, so it cannot have been seriously devalued from that aspect, maybe a few thousand dollars, if any at all. If the dealer gives you a good price, take it and get out from under the hassle of owning a car that was basically destroyed by a negligent driver. Good luck, Jim

jjrodger · #21 08-10-2002, 10:52 AM

In the UK, a car that has sustained accident damage but has been well repaired will suffer very little--if any--diminution in value as a result of the accident. This is because nobody can tell it has been accident-damaged. In the UK, there is no register of accident-damaged cars and there is no way of checking whether a car has been in an accident (unless it has been "written off" or declared a "total loss"). I do not know whether this is the case in the USA.

Speaking as a UK lawyer, if the estimates of diminution in value you have had ($8k to $26k) are genuine, I would look to settle for $13k to $18k as you say. My experience suggests a judge will not understand the "special" value of your car (arising out of its condition and rarity) and so will be reluctant to depart from figures for "average" vehicles. Experience also tells me that even judges are not immune to envy.

By way of consolation, the repairs to your car, while extensive and expensive, do not seem to be very substantial. It sounds like the bits of car that are meant to collapse did so, but no more. The rear panel work and boot floor can all be easily replaced; there is no suggestion that the passenger cell was impacted or the chassis core damaged. Did the car need to be straightened out on a jig?

If the repairs and paint job have been well executed, then given you have new mechanical components, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. As I have said earlier, though: I know you will worry about things, it can't be helped.

I always tell my clients to look at it this way: in the small island that is the UK, there are 22 milion cars on the roads; they are going to bump into each other from time to time; be thankful your turn was one of the minor ones.

I really hope the car meets your standards when you get it back. Good luck.

TomE500 · #22 08-10-2002, 04:17 PM

Go to the dealership that you bought the car from and pick out any Benz that is higher in cost than the Benz that you bought from them. Tell them that you want to trade in the repaired Benz without even picking it up from the repair shop that they sent it to. Don't try to negotiate price - just accept their first offering. Ask for the deal to be put in writing and signed by the Sales Manager. Tell the dealer that you will get back to them in the next day with a decision to complete the transaction.

If you like the dollar figure after doing the math, Take that document to Prudential and tell them that that is a legimate document showing the actual loss that you will suffer as a direct result of the negligence of their insured driver.

Loss of use and enjoyment of your Benz over the past three months, not to mention a diminisment of prestige from having to drive a lesser vehicle, should be factored in, but, you will waive those potentially litigable points if they will immediately approve your claim.

Where do I send my bill for the aforementioned advice?^)

Tom

jjrodger · #23 08-11-2002, 05:20 AM

I'm not sure "diminishment of prestige" is recoverable in law, even in the USA. Although after your recent hamburger case, nothing would surprise me...(!)

TomE500 · #24 08-11-2002, 02:05 PM

Barrister! I am surprised at your point as you are a brethen of the profession of Legal Counsel.

I am a headhunter and many moons ago, I did Legal Search(Gave it up because ALL the partners had to sign off on the hire -whew-ever see 10-12 lawyers agree on anything especially where they had to pay a $50,000 fee for it?-^)

A lawyer must finish 4 years of undergrad and at least two years of graduate school just to get into the game. After several years of grunt work, they matriculate up the ladder of the profession ranging from $135 to $1000 an hour for their services. Even at the low end of $135 an hour, they MUST maintain a corporate image in keeping with their profession-even more so than the $1000 an hour motormouthpiece. They invest in their wardrobe of suits, office suites and their cars that existing and potential clients are most certainly going to see. In the Legal Profession, there is no "business casual".

I admit to not knowing this lawyer's specialty and it is possible that all his work is behind the scenes and not subject to direct in-person client contact.. If he had to meet a client where his transportation would be visible to that client, his prestige with that client would most certainly be subject to diminishment.

Can he prove it? It would not be prudent for Prudential to run the financial risk of finding that out.

Tom

jjrodger · #25 08-11-2002, 06:34 PM

Tom: the last thing I want my clients to think is that I am earning too much money (I am not, any more will always be readily accepted). Legal services are--as you know--almost embarrassingly expensive; no way would I rub it in with a flashy car.

TomE500 · #26 08-11-2002, 09:02 PM

GR8 Caesars Ghost! GR8 Britain is a different place - must be refreshing!

On this side of the pond, image is at least half of the game. If you are going to charge above $200 an hour here stateside, you have to look the part - and then perform the part - in that order. The exceptions like F.Lee Bailey and the lawyer that defended O.J. Simpson are the rare exception to that hard and fast accepted rule.

Tump · #27 08-12-2002, 10:28 PM

Dear TomE500 and JJRodger:

Thanks for your replies. Tom is right of course, image matters here in the USA -- especially if, like me, you run your own practice, charge for extremely good work (Barry Scheck was a professor of mine) and are not yet long enough in the tooth to have built up a national or international reputation.

In any case, no matter how well the shop fixes my car or replaces the damaged bits with new ones, the total resulting stresses on all mounting points and drive train of my C43 will certainly have had a significantly negative impact on the useful life and ultimate performance of those components. That is, short of replacing the entire vehicle, it will never and can never be as good as it was.

That said, I've drawn my claim and told the insurance co. that I would settle for between $13,000.00 and $15,000.00 over and above the cost of repairs. This is after their lawyers told them to settle with me and asked me for my numbers.

Marc
C43 AMG(for 1 hour)

jjrodger · #28 08-13-2002, 03:45 AM

Be sure to let us know how you get on with this; I hope you don't have to issue proceedings.

I'd be fascinated to know more about US legal practice. I often wish I'd participated in the many US internship programmes available to UK law students and yound practitioners. The reality is, of course, that there was no way I could afford to go to the US for three months, I was pretty skint during my training in London and had a financial hang over from my student days.

Although I'm what you might call a commercial litigator (not that I could call myself that in the UK), my professional world is still very old fashioned and steeped in tradition (I'm one of the wig and gown wearing types that you may have seen on British TV dramas). There are incredible expectations of conduct placed on a barrister in the UK. Behaviour and presentation are conservative (small "c") in every way.

Also, I've only been in practice for three years, whereas many of professional clients are at partner level in big firms; they wouldn't like it were I to turn up in a Porsche! That said, a C43 would be acceptable (more than accepytable to me), as most people would be unable to distinguish it from a run of the mill C-Class.

Tump · #29 08-27-2002, 05:01 PM

Hi all!

Well, as expected, negotiations with the insurance co. did not go very well. I spoke to a senior management executive with 30 years experience. While I convinced him to come up from $3K to $6K, he chisled down my initial claim of $13K. ($13K was in the middle of my various estimates; a publication entitled "Cars of Particular Interest" estimated the diffence in value between a pristine, historically notable '99 C43 AMG and one that has been damaged but repaired well w/ OE parts to be about $11K; and the Benz delear said that he'd pay about $3K less than what I originally paid for the C43 if I traded it in on a 2002 E55 AMG -- the dealer wanted to inspect/appraise the repaired C43 first, though).

Surprisingly, the insurance co. executive did not predicate his payment to me of $6K on a general release or any written memorialization of our discussion at all.

Because the shop mechanic just now discovered more damage to the car than we actually contemplated in our settlement discussions (repairs to the C43 are now not expected to be completed before September 6), I believe that I will write to the ins. co. memorializing our "deal." Not coincidentially, our deal specified that additional compensation would be due for any later discovered or initially missed additional damage that could be directly related to the accident at issue. In that letter I will give the ins. co. the choice to enter into a fair settlement with me taking into account all damage to the C43, or face litigation.

The only problem with this position is proving what the "diminished value" of the C43 resulting from this accident actually is. The estimates I received varied widely, from $3K to $28K. Proving such a value at trial would certainly devolve into a battle of the experts: an expensive propostion for either side.

The mechanics tell me that the ins. co.'s adjuster has not even returned to their shop since he made his initial damage estimate and that significantly more straightening, sub-frame replacement, suspension replacement, body work and painting than initially contemplated has become necessary. Apparently, the mechanics may have to fight with the ins. co. to be paid for all of their work.

I offered to allow the insurance co. to provide me with a similarly equipped, black on black '99 C43 with as few miles and a factory Starmark warranty, but they refused. The ins. co. insisted that they would only pay me what I intially paid for the vehicle. That final purchase number, however, does not take into account the actual cost to me and the true value of my utterly restored 300E trade-in. Basically, if the ins. co. paid me what I paid for the C43 after my trade-in, I would not be able to purchase the same or similar vehicle. In other words, the ins. co. by their proposed settlement would deprive me of the "benefit of the bargain," and so, would not restore me to the position I was in before their insured slammed into the rear of my C43.

At the moment, I view their their $6K payment as a partial settlement, and expect to press the issue. Any thoughts, comments or opinions?

Marc
C43 AMG (for 1 hour)
mmclaw@optonline.net

JimSmith · #30 08-27-2002, 07:38 PM

Tump,

Take the dealer's offer and get a new car. Let him be concerned with the problem of making his next customer whole again. And if you get the car plus the $6k (from insurance company) as a trade, you will not loose the trade in value of your 300E. I would love to see you beat up the insurance company, but that will take forever, and likely be a very unsatisfying victory. A 2002 or even a 2003 E55 would be absolutely acceptable to me. So would a C32 for that matter.

Also, why sue the dude's insurance company? Sue him for the stuff his insurance company won't pay.

Whatever you do, I sure hope you end up on the positive side. What an experience. Good luck, Jim