16V went to the track ... Didn't make it home - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jim Villers · #1 10-17-2002, 01:56 PM

I took my supercharged 190E 2.3-16 to VIR last weekend. The SLK supercharger and SDS engine management system had been installed and working well for six months of daily driving and I was ready to put it to the test. Pictures After 5-6 laps of the VIR North course, it started pinging, the temperature rose to about 135oC. I pitted for the session, backed off the ignition 2 degrees, topped off the water and wired the auxiliary fan ON. Two more laps and the symptoms reoccurred and now I noticed significant blow by. I called it quits. Driving home the next day at a constant 60 MPH, I noticed the oil pressure begin to flicker at 3000 RPM. About two miles short of our relatives farm near Richmond, the engine totally failed with a clanking noise. The car is still at the farm; I borrowed a spare car for the trip home to Virginia Beach. I didn't have time to do any diagnostic work as I figured that the engine would need to be torn down anyway.

I'll keep you posted as things progress.

Michael · #2 10-17-2002, 07:59 PM

Ouch! I hope this turns out to be something minor

jasondew · #3 10-17-2002, 09:38 PM

wow. sorry to hear that.

Itgb · #4 10-17-2002, 10:55 PM

Sorry to hear about the misfortune Jim. Hopefully all will work out and the 16V will be back at VIR for some more hot laps.

Take care,
Giancarlo

Speedtek · #5 10-18-2002, 02:16 AM

Sounds like you lost some bearings or the rings seized up. I hope not. I am building a windage tray for my 190e-8v. I have a 90 mph sweeper I have to deal with.

Joreto · #6 10-18-2002, 08:29 AM

Sorry to hear that Jim, hope it's nothing major.

Jim Villers · #7 10-18-2002, 08:59 AM

Thanks for the "notes of sympathy". You are my "on-line" support group.

Of course, this is the opportunity to make the engine stronger and better. Running boost on top of 9.7:1 compression was probably not the best idea. I received an off line note from Daniel who is rebuilding his turbo engine with 8.5:1 pistons and that sounds like a wise move. I will take this opportunity to lower the compression and to raise the boost pressure. My only regret is that the engine failed before I had documented its power on a dyno.

speedybenz · #8 10-18-2002, 03:49 PM

What you first describe sounds like a blown head gasket, with the high temps and pressurizing the coolong system.

The 2nd failure is the rods or main bearings failing due to the water in the motor from the head gasket leaking.

I hope you do not need to buy a new crank.

When you rebuild have little grooves machined into the head that copper wire will fit into. This forms a copper o-ring and seals the motor so you will not blow the head gasket due to high boost pressures.

Jeff

omegabenz · #9 10-18-2002, 04:22 PM

I dont know why mercedes is using superchargers in their cars now, but I can tell you this, superchargers always heat the air, and provide air when it is not needed.

I think you should turbo charge your car and intercool the air because there is really less to go wrong because the air enters the combustion chamber much cooler, than a super charger with the same size intercooler. Your block probably got really hot because the air got it hot, then you probably put too much boost in it. 9.7:1 is an ok ratio to boost, but not supercharge. THe optimum pistion compression ratio for boosting is 9:1, however supercharging, you should run 8.5:1 with hyperutectic pistions to deal with the extra heat.

I think more people with the 16v cars that have turbo charged them have had less trouble if you can get the CIS to work correctly. I hope you dont have any permenent damage done to your engine. If you want to stick with the intercooler, you should really put on a big intercooler for that as well. COnsidering you have a down pipe going under the fan, well its picking up hot from the radiator, so you should run it to in intercooler infront of the radiator, then in the side for the intake.

Thats my advise to you. I hope everything turns out well.

Jim Villers · #10 10-18-2002, 06:10 PM

Jeff ... I hope that you are correct. When it failed, however, it did not even try to run on three cylinders. That is what leads me to the crankshaft of timing chain thesis.

Austin ... Superchargers are wonderful for a daily use car. Increases torque across all RPM's.

I was only using 3-4 PSI boost and my inlet air temperature was around 120-130 degrees. (not high enough to require an intercooler). I also have a vacuum bypass valve and a pressure bypass valve to avoid the pumping problems that you suggested. Even 3 PSI of boost provides a real performance increase. The black air ducts that you commented on are PVC drainpipe from Home Depot.

Alain V. · #11 10-18-2002, 08:54 PM

Jim, sorry to hear about your car.
I don't get a chance to come to this site much anymore,,,too busy with so many other things.

Anyways, If you are interested, I maybe can sell you the running US version 16v engine in my racecar.

I've had a "freshly built"C36 motor sitting on an engine stand for months now ,and will eventually stuff that monster into my racer this winter.

This means I'll no longer have a need for the 16v motor,,,sooo
lemme know if you need a spare. It's still in the car & runs fine, has about 30 SCCA raceweekends on it.

I'm not in any hurry, since I doubt I'll even be able to race my car next season.
I need to focus 100 percent on getting my new "toy" finished and probably won't have any time or funds to go racin' with.

Benzmac · #12 10-21-2002, 07:29 PM

I have seen the lower rails fail in the front lower timing cover. When this happens, they will eventually eat through the screen in the oil pump and stop it. When this happens, the cams will stop first, almost always. I would check there first. If this is the problem, I have had success with welding and then cutting them back to specs. A good machine shop could do this.

Good luck.

Jim Villers · #13 10-21-2002, 08:45 PM

Donnie ... That guess seems to match the characteristics of the failure as I remember them. I will pick up the car next weekend and will let you all know what I find.

If you are correct, would that mean that I would need a new head, valves and pistons and major repair work on the block?

Maddog · #14 10-23-2002, 12:27 AM

Here is a picture of my 300E head o-ringed.

Dan16V · #15 10-23-2002, 08:08 PM

Maddog,
I'm going to o-ring my 16V as well, and I had a few questions:

1. What size wire was used?
2. How deep is the groove in the head?
3. How far does the wire protrude out of the head?
4. How close is the grove to the edge of the combustion chamber in the head?
5. Why did you o-ring the head and not the block?

Thanks!