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  #1  
Old 11-06-2002, 07:45 AM
rainmaker's Avatar
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Titanium brake heat shields...group buy, anyone?

I was looking for ways to cool my brakes after overheating my brake fluid at the track. During my research I came across the use of titanium caliper pistons (as used in Brembos and others' top brake kits) which shields the brake fluid from heat transfer from the pads (titanium has a low propensity to transfer heat). Then I came across a website which sells titanium brake heat shields (basically a shim made in titanium in the shape of a brake pad) which goes between the brakepads and the calipers (textars come with them but in steel I believe). Unfortunately, the company only makes these heat shields for Porsche and Ferrari applications.

I emailed them asking about making these for E500/500E applications. They emailed me back saying that they are willing to do a run for our cars but the minimum order is for 7 axle pairs. The text of the reply is quoted below:

Quote:
We can manufacture to your specs. However, as you can
imagine, creating these brake shields is not unlike
manufacturing a brake pad for the many different brake
systems that exist.

Are you sure there is a market for this specialized
brake component? I don't know if many enthusiasts
realize what these do (perhaps my fault for not
advertising more). You may have a better grasp of this
market, however.

Be that as it may, in researching this, your vehicle
uses different front and rear brake pads. Here are
other MBs using this front pad:

'92-93 500E
'93 300E/SL/TE, 400E
'90-93 500 SL
'94-95 E320/E420/E500/S320/SL500/SL600
'98 SL500/SL600

Not sure if most vehicles need these in the rear, but
that depends on the circumstances (vehicle weight,
frt./rear brake ratio, vehicle speed, type of driving,
etc.). To manufacture for one brake pad style (fronts,
for example), I will need a minimum order of 7 units
which currently wholesale for $80 for an axle set
(current retail is $119.95). I will require a brake
pad design (old pad is fine) and payment upfront.
Delivery in about 8 weeks.

Thanks for your inquirey,
Sherwood Lee
Seine Systems
323-478-2717
Seinetalk@yahoo.com
If any of you are interested (i'll probably get 2 pairs) please reply to this post.

Here are the relevant pages on their website:
http://www.seinesystems.com/TiBrake-Home.htm
http://www.seinesystems.com/BrakeFade.htm
http://www.seinesystems.com/BrakeFade-2.htm

And here are pics of the heat shield:


(I'm in no way, shape or form affiliated with these people...it'a just that there's a minimum order to get this product at a decent price.)

Cheers!

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93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2002, 07:53 AM
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Cool titanium heat shields

IM interested, front and rear please
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  #3  
Old 11-07-2002, 02:43 AM
rainmaker's Avatar
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Pricing for the front are $80/set (total of 4 shields).

Still getting pricing for the rear.

Anybody else?

Need 4-5 more for the fronts and 6 more for the rears.
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Rainmaker
93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
Evo II Wheels on Dunlop FM901 235/45x17s
94 Facelift
RennTech CF Airbox
RennTech ASR Defeat
RennTech Chip
1st Gear Start
97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE Vitesse, Yellow, "Tonka" (sold)
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  #4  
Old 11-07-2002, 10:07 PM
Michael's Avatar
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Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,701
I think fresh fluid & track pads would do the trick, no?

Sounds like a good idea for a heavily tracked car...gotta talk to an engineer about this, though (Lou Nielsen, got anything to say on this?)
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  #5  
Old 11-07-2002, 11:52 PM
rainmaker's Avatar
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was thinking it would be neater and quicker than brake cooling ducts...or both for good measure!

The logic seems to be there...titanium caliper pistons vs titanium heat shields. The only possible flaws I can see in this are:
(1) if the pad/rotor somehow still heats the caliper even with the heat shields via another contact point then the caliper would now still heat the pistons but maybe to a lesser degree or
(2) on the opposite end of the spectrum, the heat shields perform so well that the caliper is unable to help cool the discs (due to less mass dissipating heat)

Yeah, i'd want to hear others from an engineering stand point.

Cheers!
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Rainmaker
93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
Evo II Wheels on Dunlop FM901 235/45x17s
94 Facelift
RennTech CF Airbox
RennTech ASR Defeat
RennTech Chip
1st Gear Start
97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE Vitesse, Yellow, "Tonka" (sold)
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2002, 02:44 PM
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Barrington Hills, IL USA
Posts: 136
The titanium or ceramic heat shields as well as titanium pistons are used to prevent the boiling of the fluid in the caliper. I've never had a problem boiling the fluid with the 500E. I did experience this with my 87 300E. I solved that with brake cooling. The heat shields or ceramic backed pads will not improve braking performance - only help to prevent the fluid from boiling.

Brake cooling will improve brake performance, prevent fluid boiling, and especially pad and rotor life under extreme conditions. I don't believe that the heat shields really will offer any substantial benefit.

The best source for a definitive answer would be Alcon.
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2003, 03:40 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,473
Are you still going to do this?
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Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2003, 11:34 PM
rainmaker's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Asia
Posts: 563
I'm willing to try it out, but...

1) There aren't enogh people who signified interest to get it rolling
2) I'm in NY right now and will be here for around a year (live in Manila) so it's not quite a priority
3) Please note that these are brake model specific. I noticed the vehicle on your sig isn't a 500E so it's a different application.

Cheers!
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Rainmaker
93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
Evo II Wheels on Dunlop FM901 235/45x17s
94 Facelift
RennTech CF Airbox
RennTech ASR Defeat
RennTech Chip
1st Gear Start
97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE Vitesse, Yellow, "Tonka" (sold)
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2003, 11:37 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,473
I wanted to put them on SL600 Rear brakes, and SL500 front brakes which are on my 300E.
__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #10  
Old 02-10-2003, 02:17 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,371
i'm in

what the hell... why not?!

; )

Ricky: welcome to CONUS!!!

(the Continental United States)
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  #11  
Old 02-10-2003, 02:30 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,473
well thats me (austin), scott, and you ricky.
__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2003, 03:52 AM
run.exe's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,371
question

Ricky:

How many people do you need to proceed with this group buy?

RSVP / Thank you,
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2003, 04:11 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,473
From the email he got from the company it looks like seven axle pairs. Scott does your 500E have the same rear brake pads as an SL600? What about SL500 vs your 500E pads front?
__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2003, 04:10 PM
run.exe's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,371
my brakes

are 1993 500E, all around (no SL600 action, sadly).
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2003, 05:04 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,749
there is a company in Los Angeles, called Harvey Titanium. they are in Santa Monica.

Might try giving them a call to see if they can make them too. Might be worthwhile to find other companies that deal with titanium.

My dad knows the former president of the company, Barry Harvey. I can request that he give barry a call and see if he can maybe get these made up for you guys.

I would probably need a regular shim as a template.

Let me know, I would be willing to check into this for you guys, who knows, I may be able to save ya guys some money on it too.

Alon

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