Yep - Dan just convinced me to skip the HID thing until Bosch or Hella make a 124 HID headlamp (like THAT will ever happen). I would like to see Mike's modified reflector, just because I can't picture in my head what he did!

About making a kit, I think I could do a kit for the 124.1x3 (like Speedy's and mine) since I have one to play with, to get the mounting locations correct etc. I'd be nervous about making a 124.036 kit (500E) because I don't know where to tell people to mount the relays. I'd want to have step-by-step, idiot-proof instructions. Some tools would be required (crimper, preferably controlled-cycle; and possibly a soldering iron - depends how you want to do the final termination [direct to bulb or just to headlamp 6-pin conn.]).

Neil's setup looks pretty clean, I like that. Neil - do those Hella relays have built-in fuses? Hard to tell from the photo. You still need to fuse back at the battery for short-circuit protection but a secondary never hurts. The MB connectors are a nice touch too.

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No, these are the Hella relays WITHOUT a fuse. I do have fuses very close to the battery feed, and to the negative ground as well.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

FWIW, the 150Amp alternator I installed was MB pn#011.154.32.02. I only swapped pulleys from my C36 engine, and everything else bolted right up. These alternators are found on 1999-2001 E430, E55, and some CL's.

Technically, the M119's 150amp alternator is MB pn#011.154.71.02, but the one above was only $90-used and didn't need any modifications. These alternators are found on 1997-1999 SL500's and 500SELs.

The original BOSCH regulator was BOSCH pn# 1.197.311.556
The replacement BOSCH regulator is BOSCH pn# 1.197.311.242

The alternator tested at 160Amps for 10-minutes on the bench.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

...pretty please???

Unfortunately, I don't have them. Give Dan an email by visiting his website: http://lighting.mbz.org

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

What is the exact # of relays I will need, please?

Again, I want to install relays to activate low beams, high-beams, and pencil-beams.

I really wish somebody could put together a kit!!!

(6) Six relays if you have one for each light (low, high, pencil) (the most redundancy);

(4) Four if you want to control Left & Right, low & high, individually and no pencil beam;

(3) Three if you're willing to let one relay (single point of failure) control both Left & Right lights of low, high, and pencil;

(2) Two if you only want to control Left & Right low and high;

You could do fogs in either one or two relays as well.

Personally, I like one relay for each functional set of lights, e.g. one for low; one for high; one for pencil; and one for fogs.

Check out Dan's diagram, taken from:
http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/relays/relays.html

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

What is the approximate price per relay, please?

The schematic above shows how the BergWerks kit would be wired, with only 2 relays - one for low beam, one for high beam (no fogs or pencils). This setup requires wires crossing the radiator area (above or below), which I wanted to avoid, and I also wanted one relay per side per beam (four total: left high, left low, right high, right low).

For the pencil beams, you can either add one or two more relays (depends if you want one per side one for both), OR just feed the pencil beam H3 in parallel off the high beam relay. Some relays have dual output blades for this exact purpose. That's what I did for the sake of simplicity, and electrically it can handle the current with no problems. I didn't want yet *another* relay to try & mount, it's hard enough to find a good spot for 2 per side!

Note that for the fog lights in the bumper, you WILL need one (or two) more relays specifically for the fog circuit. Relays for the fogs, IMO, is not really necessary unless you use your fog lights often & want/need more light from them. I'd skip them for now & do it later if you want.

Scott - will you be doing a DIY install, or having a local shop install the relays & wiring? Oh, and Dan can probably assemble a custom kit for you with all the parts needed. I would like to make a 124-specific kit one of these days with detailed instructions but I'm really short on time right now, unfortunately....

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I would prefer to drop of my car and pick it up the same day (I'm SWAMPED with work and have no free time!!!), if costs don't prove to be astronomical.

Ideally, I would like to drop off a kit-of-parts (with an instruction-sheet) and say "please make this happen" to my tech.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Scott M. Shell wrote:

> My name is Scott M. Shell and I am a Mercedes-Benz 500E fanatic! My car's website is located at: http://www.nemonis.net


Cool stuff! Just spent a few minutes mousing around your (car's) site.


> I want to upgrade my vehicle's lighting system; I currently run European-spec E-code headlamps (1-piece).


Good start. Which ones? Not as simple to answer as it may seem -- Can you send me a close-up view of the headlamp
portion of one of the lenses, with the lamps off?


> 1) I want to install headlamp relays (one per light?) using 10-ga. wire along with Hella ceramic hi-temp H4 connectors.


Easy. Those Hella connectors aren't ceramic, per se, they're phenolic, but they are what you're after: They take 10ga wire, have
phosphor-bronze low-resistance contacts and will take whatever heat you care to apply to them. Relays, also no problem.
You can run one relay per filament if you like, but you can also run one relay per beam, since I furnish Bosch 40A relays
with dual output terminals.


> 2) I want to upgrade my main bulbs to OSRAM or Narva Rallye H4 bulbs (130/100).


Always in stock. Osram doesn't make 130/100, Narva does, $19/ea.


> 3) I want to upgrade my H3 pencil-beams to relays + 10-ga. wire and 80W or 100W bulbs.


Careful here. That's a very small reflector -- you won't *necessarily* heatcrack your lens, but you will definitely increase
the odds of it happening, and that is a *very* expensive lens.


> 4) I plan to upgrade my alternator to a Mercedes-Benz S-Class (150-Amp) version in August, using 2-ga. wire from the alternator to the battery.


Good...


> 5) I want to install relays to activate low beams, high-beams, and pencil-beams.


Yep. Not hard.


> 6) I do NOT want to run wiring under/in front of the radiator area, if at all possible!

Not necessary to do so.


> Are you able to assemble a kit-of-parts for me, please, to meet my goals? If so, what will said kit cost, please?


Surely. Indicate whether you want one-relay-per-filament or one-relay-per-beam. Also indicate if the car is equipped
with a lamp outage module, and indicate if it's still equipped with the US 9004 bulb sockets somewhere in the system.


> Please visit the following thread for an entire history of this subject (it is only a few pages in length).


I will do so. Be advised there is an article floating around out there that advises wiring the lamps such that the lows
stay on with the highs. No! Don't! Very dangerous! Bulb explosion hazard, and NOT what the optics were meant for!

- DS

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Stern Lighting [mailto:dastern@vrx.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 2:35 PM
To: Scott M. Shell

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Scott M. Shell wrote:

> Attached, please find close-up images of the headlamp portion of one of my BOSCH lenses, with the lamps off.

Good, got it.


> Do I already have phenolic connectors?

No, but you do have unacceptably thin-gauge wiring on the inside of your headlamp units. This isn't difficult to fix.


> I would prefer to run one relay per beam, to simplify my installation; hence, I prefer to use Bosch 40A relays with dual output terminals. Please include (in your kit quote) 4 Navra 130/100 bulbs.

Not a problem.


> Will your kit include detailed installation instructions for the layman?

They are here:

http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/relays/relays.html



> My 500E is, indeed, equipped with a lamp outage module

It will cry wolf upon the installation of the relays. If it works via a single light bulb on the instrument cluster, you may wish to remove this bulb. Otherwise, you'll have to have the module recalibrated to look at the relays. I don't know if this is worth the hassle and expense, but if you find that it is so, I can refer you to such a service.


> provisioning of US-spec 9004 bulb-sockets, how can I determine this?


Look for a grey or bright blue plastic 3-wire connector, about 30mm by about 25mm, and having a half-moon shape when viewed straight on, near the headlamps. It may be that these were chopped off when the European lamps were installed. If so, that will cost-reduce the relay kit.

Assuming no 9004 sockets are present: relay package = low beam + high beam + auxiliary lamps (AKA "driving lamps" or "pencil beams") = $77.00.

Narva 130/100W bulbs are $19.00 each.


> Do you require more images?

No, but you may be interested in the high-output standard-wattage bulbs we have for your reversing lamps, brake lamps, rear turn signals and, if you're running single-filament sockets in those European clear front corners, magic bulbs that appear chrome (invisible) when off, but flash legally amber...

- DS

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Stern Lighting [mailto:dastern@vrx.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 2:52 PM
To: Scott M. Shell

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Scott M. Shell wrote:

> I am almost 100% certain that they are NOT there.

You're probably right. We'll proceed as if not, so prices as in former e-mail.


> Also, do you sell the (heat-shrink/heat-resistant shielded) 10-ga. wire I will need?

No. Purchase it locally. Standard ordinary Belden wire from your local NAPA is fine; if you want the best of the best, specially order a few spools of Belden "XL-DUR" wire, which is insulated with irradiated crosslynked polyethylene that'll stay in the flame of a gas stove for 15 seconds before beginning to show any stress.

High-output bulbs for non-headlamp applications?

- DS

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Stern Lighting [mailto:dastern@vrx.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 2:56 PM
To: Scott M. Shell


On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Scott M. Shell wrote:

> Thank you VERY much! At what number may I call you to place my order, please?

416-766-2327

> I already have 1 other interested party (more will follow, I am certain).

If you'd like to place a group order and save on shipping, that's also doable.

- DS

Good stuff from Dan! A few comments:

1- The 9004 connectors are an internal part of the old DOT lamps. You have Euro lights, so the 9004 connectors are GONE. Not an issue. Here's one of many reasons why 9004's suck:

http://www.meimann.com/images/mercedes/W124_headlights/9004_conn_melted.jpg


2- You want one relay per filament on the H4's (4 relays total). The pencil beam filament can be tapped off the high beam relay on each side, or if you really want those separate, you'll need 6 relays total (not really necessary IMO).


3- Dan warned about using high-power H3 bulbs. FWIW, I have been using cheap Taiwan 100w H3 bulbs with no problems - yet. It's possible the cracking issue may only apply to cheap (non Hella/Bosch) lamp assemblies? When those burn out I'm getting good Philips/Osram H3's to replace them.

4- The headlamp assemblies do have small internal wires (16ga, I think). They are adequate for large bulbs due to the VERY short length of wire involved, but not optimum. I want to re-wire mine with 12ga inside the lamp but haven't had time. The alternative is to bypass that wiring entirely, cut a hole in the rear cover plate of your lamps, and run the wires directly to the bulbs. This is the best electrically but I personally preferred not to do this.

5- The bulb-out idiot light will light up after the relay conversion. I don't like disabling it, since then you don't know when brake lights or marker lamps fail. Fortunately, BergWerks sells a modified bulb-out module (N7 in your fuse box area) that cures this. It's about $80 with exchange and works GREAT. They open up the stock unit and cut a few traces on the PCA, so it thinks the headlight bulbs are always OK. You'll know when a bulb blows, trust me. I have this on my car and love it.

6- You only need two H4 bulbs, the pencils use H3's, I assume you wanted four to have a couple spares. The average life per 130/100 bulb is somewhere around 100 hours, which is very short compared to most "normal" bulbs. After you complete the upgrade, I'm sure you'll feel this is a worthwhile tradeoff (spending $40 on bulbs regularly in exchange for near-daylight at midnight!)

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