380SL 1981 questions

[AlexK]

Hello there, my first post.
Maybe I am asking answers on too many things at rigth now.

I am trying to get a 380SL 1981 on the road before summer.
Things to do are a kind of major:
-need a chain conversion
-need to replace the transmission
I have a mechanic to do the work, and trust him.
We kind of verbally agreed (for now) on the following:

-1 one day labour to remove the engine including the transmission
-2 one day labour to do the chain conversion
-3 one day labour to re-install the engine including the transmission
provided that nothing major things happen (breaking bolts etc.)
therefor 3 days labour, not including setting up idle control etc.

I supply him with the Chain Conversion Kit and a Rebuilt Transmission.
The mechanic says there is no need to remove the total engine for this.
I think that doing the chain and reinstalling the transmission, would be easier on him with the engine removed, and it also says so in CHILTON # 48300. To trade-in the transmission I need the Torque Converter and the Bellhousing.

Have you got any opinion on that?

Thank you so much.

[Genbiltstein]

I will let you know that it is pretty tight. If he can reach the bellhousing bolts than more power to him.
The Mercedes SL is a completely different animal than I have ever reckoned with and I have been in the maintenance field since the early eighties.

[Walrus]

I will add that, to remove the front timing cover, the drive chain to the oil pump will have to be removed. Only way I know to do this is to drop the oil pan... In the car, that is going to be difficult at least.

[mbboy]

I rebuilt the top end of my 81 380sl with the help of an Indy 2 years ago, and I'm now having the transmission rebuilt. So I can tell you that the transmission can definitely be removed without pulling the engine, and the prices I've gotten to do so were all between $450 and $500.

However, with the amount of work your mechanic is going to have to do, it would be far easier for him to pull the engine and tranny together, thereby giving him freer access to all the things he's going to have to replace. Doing this will also allow him to replace the motor and sub-frame mounts, if they haven't been replaced already, as they are almost certainly shot, and replacing them will dramatically improve the way the car rides.

In addition, depending on your car's mileage, and the amount of money you're prepared to spend, once the engine is out, it would probably be advisable to replace the valve stem seals, which tend to dry out, and if necessary, the valve guides and head gaskets, particularly, the left one, as these usually start to leak somewhere between 100 and 200k miles. However, if and when you do replace the valve guides, you have to drill out the head bolt holes and insert helicoils or Timeserts, because the aluminum blocks on these cars tend to strip when you replace the head bolts. So depending on your car's mileage, its compression readings, and the amount of oil its burning, you may not want to do this just now.

In either case, I'd also think about replacing the starter with a rebuilt Bosch while the engine was out, since starter replacement on these cars is far less difficult and costly when the engine is out, and the starter is going to go sooner or later. However, if you can take care of these things now, you'll be happy you did. Trust me, as I've been there.

How many miles does your car have on it, as it's hard to find a high mileage 380 that still has a single row chain? And when you do replace the chain guides, make sure your mechanic uses the metal ones that Meyle makes, as the plastic guides tend to break, which can cause big problems.

Also, what's wrong with your tranny? Slipping in reverse?

[meltedpanda]

remove engine, less time overall will be involved and better work can be done. While you are at it make sure the injectors are done, renew all vacuum lines
I am in hopes the body and interior are in such shape that a rebuild of this caliber is in order. There are a lot of fine examples out there and market is down right now

[AlexK]

Thank you all for the replies.

The truth of the matters silly but true.
The car originally came from Florida, and I suspect that it did not make the trip across the continent. It has 75000 miles on it, major repairs done and has been in storage for for 10+ years and has clocked 600 miles since.

I bougth the car for $7000 CDN. The cost to the owner, labour and parts for having put in a used engine and transmission was > $ 7500. @ 75000 miles, 10 years ago. I have the bills as proof!

The (original???) milage of 75000 does not make sense, as it needs a R.R wheel bearing and stearing box and pump. I suppose that these things do wear out at ~ 200,000 miles?? Not to talk about miserable, and stupid things such as dysfunctial softtop and rotten seatbelts that must have been a left over from the Florida owner. But the body and interior is in excellent shape (no rot), it has brand new tires (600 miles), new fuel pump and many other new things. I did not have it inspected before the purchase. Hence a single Timing Chain -I asked the original repair shop, and they confirmed- , and a thrashed transmission -grinds going forward, squeels going in reverse. As I don't want to deal with so-called Inspections, Analysis and Repairs (the blank cheque trick), I will supply the Transmission and Timing Chain Conversion Set to my Mechanic (and he agrees), thus have a fixed price, and will not look back.

Hence, I kindly wanted to know if the "three day event" and the total removal of the engine was reasonable.
To have more work done as MBBOY kindly suggested makes sense, but I just will have to take my chances.
As it stands now, I could, I will be in for it for ~ $13,000CDN (car and installed parts) and that is nearby the current market price.

I got some fine answers from all of you!
Thank you.

AlexK in BC
.

[mbboy]

Hard to believe that the previous owner (PO) would have replaced the original engine with a single row chain engine, and that any mechanic who knew anything about these cars would have let him do it.

And then one has to ask why the PO had to put an engine and tranny in that car at 75k, as these engines and trannies can go much farther than that with minimal care. This leads one to suspect that the car must have had many more miles on it, and, perhaps, that its chain broke because the PO didn't replace it and the chain guides at the recommended interval << 100k miles.

There are, however, alternatives to converting your single chain engine to a double chain. First, you can find good used double chain engines with and without trannies around in wrecks for a couple of grand with 30-90 day warranties. So your mechanic could then just check the engine's compression , change the chain, chain guides, and any other things it needs before he put them in your car. Seems to me this would be easier and ultimately cost less than converting your engine and adding a rebuilt tranny?

[AlexK]

That is exactly what happend. The PO must have been despairate.
As I checked back with the repair shop, they acknowlegd the fact that it was plainly an single chain row engine and (rotten) transmission, and they did not care.
I did not ask anymore questions, other than what their hourly rate was. Consider the hourly minimum wage here in BC and what their hourly shop charges are and that is 16X. Therfore the + $7400 bill. You have got to pay for skill you know!
I am not sure about stuff from the wreckers, you may be lucky, you may not, see above!
The cost to transport things to Vancouver Island is enormous.
The plan is to go and trade a rebuild transmission in Oregon (actually the only supplyer in the whole continent advertising, I found on the Internet), for me it saves on Sales Tax, Import Duty, Transportation, and I can safely assume that this exchanged transmission is in proper order.
One way or another, as I understand, the mechanic has to remove the engine any ways. That gives the oppertunity to install the Chain Coversion kit, and I will be all happy. It was found money anyways.

Thanks MBBOY, great help!