Hello,

I will be taking the 95 E300D for an alignment at the MB dealer. When we had new tires put on the tire shop did an alignment. They called MB dealer and got the specs. I got a copy of those specs and on top of it it says, W210. Well after few thousand km, my front tirer's tread got all choppy, the car vibrates at highways speeds. I went back to the tire shop and they rotated the tires. I told him about the W210 on the alignment spec paper, but the guy ignored me.




There has to be a difference between W124 and W210 alignments specs.

Here are some specs from the sheet that was used:

Primary Angles:
Front:
left caster = 10.4
right caster = 10.7

left toe = 0.15
right toe = 0.15


Rear:
left camber = -1.3
right camber = -1.4
left toe= 0.30
right toe= 0.30

Thrust angle = 0.0

Do those specs above sound like W124 or more like W210 specs?

I just called the MB dealer. I have an app. for alignment. The price for an alignment is $138 bucks THe service advisor also said that the tires may be getting cupped/feathererd due to worn out shocks?? I guess diesel engines are heavier but after 168xxx km the front shocks are going south?

Hmmmm, 100 000 miles out of the shocks.
Most cars ( especially North American cars ), wear them out after about 30 k miles, HD's MAY last 50 k miles.
I would also question the balancing job done on your new tires.
In my experience, not too many places do a good enough job on this.
$ 138.00 ( $ 100.00 US ) doesn't sound bad for a GOOD 4-wheel alignement.

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2007 C 230 Sport.

I have the specifications for a Benz, 92-95, 124.034, "Sport Suspension".

Front
Camber: Min -1.33, Nominal -1.00, Max -0.83,
Caster: Min 9.92, Nominal 10.42, Max 10.92
Toe: Min 0.08, Nominal 0.17, Max 0.25

Cross Camber: Min -0.33, Nominal 0.00, Max 0.33
Cross caster: Min -0.50, Nominal 0.00, Max 0.50

Rear
Camber: Not adjustable, but in general not more negative than –2.0 is advised
Toe: Min 0.13, Nominal 0.21, Max 0.29

Total Toe: Min 0.25, Nominal 0.42, Max 0.59


You should also check this link.
Sway bar for W124 E420
A few posts down the list there is a link to a pdf that has specs for a number of different models. You can thank gsxr for the link to the "official" specifications. The specs use minutes and degrees. In case you don’t remember from your early days in math class, there are 60 minutes in a degree, so 30’ (minutes) is 0.5 degrees.

I think cupping is usually caused by improper tire balance and I agree that MOST shops do not use the best equipment to balance the tires. Even if they have the best equipment, they often don’t have the skill or maybe it is just that they don’t care about doing very good job on the balancing. My car is VERY SENSITIVE to being properly balanced, so only the very best will do for me. I just paid $160.00 for my alignment and I think they charged me about $30.00 each to balance the new tires from Tirerack. Even at that rate, I still have some issues to sort through, because I tempted fate by lowering my suspension. I think you often get what you pay for. Then again, you can sometimes just be getting ripped off. Good luck with your stuff.

As for worn out shocks, I have been led to believe that the Bilstein shocks may last the life of the car and that many people replace them for no reason at all. I have new ones, but I have read many times that the shocks may be good for life.

__________________
I just couldn't give up on my 1995 E320.

I think it might be like always going back to that same bad relationship with an ex girlfriend.
You feel you love them too much, or you are just too stupid to know any better.



Flickr slideshow of my 1995 E320
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24145497@N06/sets/72157616572140057/

Thats $138 US dollars or 165 bucks canadian at the MB dealership

Complete alignment specs for all W124 chassis are in this PDF file:

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/W124/124_alignment.pdf

Your 1995 E300 Diesel is W124.131.

That said, most Mercedes need tires rotated very frequently to get decent wear. And they're not real tolerant of cheap tires. The vibration is due to an unbalanced wheel, not alignment. I'm not buying the "worn shocks" claim unless the tires are cupped (evenly across the tread, from wheel hop), which isn't likely. Woops, just noticed ksing just about said the same thing - lol...!

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Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Thank you GSXR,

The tires are pretty much cupped across the whole thread of the tire, meaning from the outside of the rim to the inside of the rim.

I am leaning to the possibilty that the shocks need replacing.

For vibration, I would check road force balance before replacing suspension components. Road force balancing costs $80~100 for 4 wheels in my area.

http://128.242.141.111/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm

My MB has about 240 k miles. Front shocks were replaced due to leak. I do not know whether previous owner replaced rear shocks or not. MB dealer will not recommend replacing shocks simply due to mileage.

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1992 300D 2.5 turbo diesel. 319 k miles.
124.128 chassis, 602.962 engine, 722.418 tranny.

I see many W201/W124s with their front slightly lowered. Would this show saggy springs or weak shocks. Our E300D sits fairly even and it does not have the "lowered look". When I press down on the front left/right side the car doesn't bounce but is not stiff either. When driving the car seems to be pretty solid, it doesnt bounce or lean too much when turning etc...Although my uncle's 97 S320 has a slighlty firmer feel when taking corners. Hmmm... is there any other way to test shocks? I guess I will ask my mechanics to go for a spirited drive in the diesel and see what he says.

BTW: the tires are cupped across the whole tread area of the tread.

The tires were balanced when they were changed and again when rotated. It was just a regular balance using tire weights where needed, outside/inside of the rim.

Springs don't sag very much after they settle in. Usually if an older car sits lower than expected, there are worn suspension items that are the cause, not sagging springs. Unfortunately there is not an easy way to test shocks or struts that are not leaking. They often feel the same when bounced and in general driving it's hard to tell since they wear gradually. I have noticed you can tell a difference in the force needed to compress the shock/strut when it's off the car, or the time it takes for the compressed piston to rebound. But this isn't helpful unless you have a new one to compare to, or have done it enough to tell good from bad. Rule of thumb is if they are over 100kmi old, and you are having problems (like cupped tires) that make you suspect they're bad, it's probably not a waste of money to replace them. Only get Bilstiens if you go aftermarket (Boge and Sachs are probaby OK as well), but avoid KYB or store-brand items (Monroe, Sears, etc.)

Hi ,GSXR, I think the front shocks will need replacement. Now i had an alignmnet done at a tire shop and the car does not pull or anything when driving. The reasong why I made an app. with MB dealer for alignment is because I thaugh the tire shop maybe didnt get the alignment right. Since the shocks are the probable cause should I spend the US 138 bucks on MB alignment or just buy new shocks. Im thinking about doing the front shocks only, is that a good idea?

Also I guess I will go with Bilstein Comfort. There is no sense on putting Bilstein HD in the front and having OEM MB shocks in the back, right? Reason why I ask is that I want a firmer suspension. Then again i read Bilstein HD is too harsh, ehh I need to make up my mind.

I heard that a spreader bar is needed to adjust toe correctly, because of extensive usage of rubber bushings in W124.

Spreader bar simulates some force on the wheel when the car is driving.
If the tire shop did not use spreader bar, the toe angle they measured on standing car may be within spec, but the toe angle may be out of spec while driving.

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1992 300D 2.5 turbo diesel. 319 k miles.
124.128 chassis, 602.962 engine, 722.418 tranny.

Maybe i should invest in the alignment first, before doing the shocks.

Well, I sought desperately for an alignment service, trying to get set for the holiday weekend. I called the local dealers Smythe European and Beshoff Motorcars, and a handful of independents to get a quote on the service. Smythe quoted me $275 for the alignment. NO WAY, PERIOD. Beshoff was a little less girthy and quoted me at $189, so I made the appointment, but later cancelled. All the other independents told me to try Wheel Works, Just Tires, or Big O Tires. I wasn't having it.

Well, I got on the road with my wobbley tires and my straying steering wheel and faced my options. Just Tires had a decent deal on tires, but they wanted $110 for the alignment. No spreader bar and no test driving. Yeah, it sounds like a quikie, "See you back in X months!" kind of job. So I took a shot at the wheel place across the street. It was a Goodyear "Gemini" Service Center. I talked the fellow there and here is what we did. He offered me a $99 alignment (12 month, 12,000 guarantee nationally recognized). Yes they use the spreader bar ("We have to use it on these Benzes" -Service Guy), and yes they took a test drive, before and after. He sold me a decent set of 4 tires and did the alignment job for just around $375. I asked for the protection guarantee for another $32 bucks so I was just over $400. The same service and set of tires across the street, $472 out the door.

All I can say is ask the questions, do the homework, and face the options and it will all work itself out. My baby's got a new pair of shoes and driving like a champ.

hookedonbenz,
You need to visit Custom ALignment in Mtn View. tel 650-961-5311 These guys are perfectionists, they do nothing but suspension and wheel alignments and they do it on lots of trick cars, Maseratis, racing cars and really Expensive stock cars that people bring from all over No Calif.
One of the owners told me they also do work for a Mercedes shop, I don't know which one but presumably in that area. He drove me to the train and checked out my car and said he was very familiar with the 123 chassis. I have to take the train down the peninsula when I drop a car off there but its worth it, compared to the problems I had with Wheel Works! They took three times to get the alignment right on my '83 300D. I wouldn't trust them with a go cart. The thing that burns me is when you pay for an alignment and it pulls badly and when asked why they didn't catch it on a road test they say they do not drive customer cars for company policy. (Help! Get me otta there quick before I start yelling at someone )

Custom checked out my '79 300TD and told me they couldn't (wouldn't) do an alignment because it wouldn't hold, due to a worn upper control arm. After my Indy mechanic friend replaced control arms (he had already replaced all the bushings, the drag link and tie rod ends/ball joints) Custom did an alignment and not only did the car drive straight as an arrow, the steering wheel was (still is) perfectly centered, something the dealer didn't get right when I used their alignment services. I think they charged $120

RE: Shocks. At 200K miles even Bilsteins are going to be way softer then when they were new, leaking or not. I replaced mine on the '87 300D at 225K and wow was it nice to feel the car tighten up! Comforts only for me, please. I had HD Bilsteins on my wife's car and she demanded I fix it because it was too stiff. And gsxr is right, forget anything but Bilsteins, BTDT with KYB's leaking after less than 20K miles.

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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!