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  #1  
Old 02-05-2016, 04:39 PM
dkveuro's Avatar
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'99 ML Ign' Key Blade Broke Off Fob.

I deleted my original post for this revision.....

My 1999 ML 430 ignition key blade broke off last night and blade managed to drop down between seat and tunnel ...

After removing the drivers seat and retrieving the blade....

Anyways, starting it with a pair of 'Vise Grips' and holding fob to key hole is getting tedious.

Mercedes of OKC Parts Dept told me....
Bring car and title.
New flip key and fob, two days to order.
Price :$214.00 plus tax and 1 hour programme .( $129 per hour.)

This sounds about right to you all ?

Here's an inquiry: The AAM and DAS ultimately turn on the engine ECU when correct code given by key fob transponder.

So, why can I not go down line and find where the power to the ECU is sent from and duplicate that with a simple on/off relay? After all, the ECU needs power to operate but not code to operate once running.....as I found out last night.

I started the ML with fob next to key hole, but once running put fob in ash tray.

So, my thinking is there must be a 'go around' by rewiring like the VATS anti theft on the GM vehicles.....for which you can buy a by-pass module.

I'm cheap . My ML cost me $386.00 plus $200.00 to get it running, so, $350.00 on a key is last thing I wanna do.



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  #2  
Old 02-05-2016, 06:44 PM
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EDIT, another thought, did the blade break off or did the super small roll pin come out and blade fell out of fob?

You have the single button, IR, flip key correct? Complete housings are sold on e bay for $ 12 but you would have to get the key cut.

You can get a "flat key" for about $ 40 from the dealer , this looks like a regular key with a short head and it has the RFID chip to work the DAS. This will start the car without programming as MB has a list of keys / slots the car has in play. ( If someone used aftermarket SW to program a key, MB won't know this unless a scan tool is hooked up )

Your system is supposed to be the same as my 97 cars except the DAS function is inside the AAM. A coded signal from DAS to ECU is sent over the CAN bus so this isn't a simple power up to bypass.

The only programming would be for remote locks or to delete the fob you are no longer going to use. On my 97 programming the remote consists of pressing the button twice and starting the car.
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2016, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
EDIT, another thought, did the blade break off or did the super small roll pin come out and blade fell out of fob?

You have the single button, IR, flip key correct? Complete housings are sold on e bay for $ 12 but you would have to get the key cut.................
I only have this one master key.

Blade okay. Flip hinge casting broke out releasing the blade. Blade has been afixed to fob this morning using super glue although now can not be folded.

Fob is 4 pad fob.

I never use the remote function.

MB told me nothing about getting a 'Valet' key.

AAM is an 8 key max. AAM is separate from DAS on this machine. MB told me they cannot tell how many keys have been allocated to the vehicle until they use their StarScanner on the vehicle.

Engine starts fine with fob close to ignition switch.

I cant see how ultimately the ECU can't work unless the code is retrieved. It had to Turn On with 12 vdc. ....not a secret hand shake (?)

I have the PDF of how the lock programming is done. This fob is not used to remote lock/unlock. I don't use that feature.




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  #4  
Old 02-06-2016, 11:42 PM
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You still should be able to get an e bay 4 button flip housing. When you take it apart there will be a circuit board for the remote and a small rectangular plastic piece that contains the RFID chip. Look up a PFC7930 chip.

There is an 8 active key max however each key can have 3 versions but not all versions can be active at the same time.

I'll call the 8 keys A through H, any one or all of these can be active. Key " A " has 3 sub keys that I'll call A1 , A2, A3 however only one of the A keys can be active. Any key can be blocked ( this is reversible ) or deleted ( this is irreversible using regular MB tools however the aftermarket has solutions )

A flat key isn't a valet key. Valet keys are cut slightly different and only work in the door and ignition, they won't for the trunk , glove box and other safe areas.

When I got keys for my 97 SL320 , the dealer said the MB depot had a record of what keys were issued to that car and won't reissue an existing key.

There is a secret handshake for the DAS system. The RFID key chip sends a code to the DAS , DAS looks for it to be valid then sends another code to the ECU to allow fueling. Also in tandem, the DAS sends a new code to the RFID key chip so it is ready for the next cycle. This is a rolling code.

Remotes use a rolling code list, this is why they need to be programmed / synced to the car. The remote and receiver both have a list of codes, the remote sends a code and the receiver looks at the list to see if it is within say 16 lines. This allows for pressing the remote out of range of the car. Each time the remote is pressed a new code is sent.

An even more complicated system ( that you car probably does not have ) is a seed ,challenge , response. In this case the key sends a code to the receiver, the receiver sends a different code back, if that code is what the key expects, it sends another code to the receiver to allow the car to run.
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2016, 12:20 AM
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Thank you very much for that information 97. As I said, I don't use the remote. The Valet Key for the ML I suppose would be redundant being as the body is a 4 door hatch back with no separate trunk.

Having glued the blade into the fob everything is working okay...so far.

Do you know how reliable this AAM DAS system is? as opposed to the combined AAM/DAS ?

My research has lead me to people who have been charged thousands after getting key problems. At that point i would part the vehicle......

Now, thinking out loud, would it be possible to remove the AMM DAS and ECU from a wrecked vehicle of similar year/type (ML) and use them with it's key in my ML?

I'm thinking mine is too early for the 'locked to vehicle' ECU's.

You mentioned Aftermarket. Do you have any links that may prove useful ?



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  #6  
Old 02-07-2016, 09:12 AM
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Locked to the vehicle is relative. If you took the key chip, DAS / AAM / ECU it should transfer to another car. The locks can remain original as long as you use a chip that matches the DAS. You could even get a spare ignition antenna ring, place the chip in the middle then stash it under the dash away from the ignition switch.

On a 97 C280 / E320 / SL320 I've swapped complete sets to run the car. ( these don't have an AAM that is tied to DAS and the instrument cluster isn't vehicle specific. )

In the 97's, the VIN lives in a micro processor in the ECU, the handshake between the DAS box and ECU occurs there. If you have any state mandated plug in emission tests the wrong VIN will show up though.

The 7 speed auto has a processor in the transmission that is locked to the car but yours is a 5 speed.

E bay is the source for programmers, I don't have a specific seller.
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2016, 12:00 PM
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97...Thank you again. Is this what your refering to and if so how can this work ?

Mercedes Benz Key Programmer Free Shipping | eBay



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  #8  
Old 02-07-2016, 12:59 PM
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Seeing the seller, this is the one I got to experiment with the 97. I've read an orphan DAS box but have not made a key yet as I have no way of testing the key. I need to come up with a test ECU that matches the DAS box. There is other SW to copy / unlock the ECU to allow it to work with another DAS box but I haven't found any yet.

You need to be able to work with desoldering surface mount components using a fine tip iron or hot air. The MCU is in a 64 TQFP package to be specific. I've used a fine tip iron and a safety pin to progressively wedge legs up. The chip then needs to be soldered to the adapter board to be read by the tool.

You then pick what key you want to make, put a blank RFID chip in the outline, burn the the chip then solder the MCU back into the DAS.

RFID chips are around $3 from what i recall.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2016, 05:57 PM
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I came across this in the archives, it says that 98 - 00 ML can be programmed through the OBD port.
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  #10  
Old 02-10-2016, 06:48 PM
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I just picked up a key from my dealer $130.00
04 ML350. The key worked the ignition right out of the box. My local indy setup the remote fuctions for free.
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