M Class Opinions - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

benz320 · #16 08-16-2002, 04:13 PM

Wolfgang,

On your site, you have mentioned the base prices of the 03 ML's - they are higher by more than 10% over the 02's. Is that for the new ML350? that's a steep price rise. That will push a loaded ML350 over 45K.

ML320 · #17 08-16-2002, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by benz320
Wolfgang,

On your site, you have mentioned the base prices of the 03 ML's - they are higher by more than 10% over the 02's. Is that for the new ML350? that's a steep price rise. That will push a loaded ML350 over 45K.

Good point.

MBUSA included the $665 shipping and handling charges in the base price starting in 2003, and in addition I had added the sales taxes as well, since corrected, to facilitate comparisons with previous years. The base price for the new 2003 ML 350 in Germany is listed as 38,300 euros without sales tax now and will probably be in that general area in the US as well.

Wolfgang

benz320 · #18 08-16-2002, 05:39 PM

Introducing ML350 3 months into the 03 model year is really strange. If they had to do it, why not do it at the beginning of the model year? The poor guys who buy the 320 now are going to really get a hit, since they will essentially get the 02 truck minus the steep discounts on the year end model. I spoke to some dealers, and they are not giving discounts on the 03 anywhere near what they are/were giving for 02's. In fact, they either do't know about the 350, or don't want to tell the customers about it.

Is 350 the same engine with some modifications, or a completely new engine from grounds up? Does it have variable valve timing?

ML320 · #19 08-17-2002, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by benz320
Introducing ML350 3 months into the 03 model year is really strange. If they had to do it, why not do it at the beginning of the model year?

Because the M112 E37 will not be ready for US production until November/December 2002 since MB requires extensive testing before releasing new engines, and delays are not unusual. It's the last version of the M112 and will be replaced by the all new M272 direct injection six series sometime in the 2004/2005 timeframe, which is similar to the M271 recently released.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/cgi.html

Wolfgang

mplafleur · #20 08-18-2002, 11:41 AM

Better? That's not better. To be better, it must be a diesel!

When's the Diesel ML-xxx coming out? They make'em in Alabama, but not for the States.

You can go to Germany, take a tour and buy your new MB there. Drive it around and ship it home. As far as I know, you can still do this.

How about I go to Alabama and buy an ML270. I'll just forget to ship it to Austrailia.

ML320 · #21 08-18-2002, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mplafleur
When's the Diesel ML-xxx coming out?

Michael,

MBUSA plans to reintroduce diesels in North America. First to go is the E-Class in 2004, probably with the new OM 642 six using third generation direct fuel injection with 2000 bar. An M-Class diesel might follow.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/diesels_come_back.txt

Wolfgang

Gilly · #22 08-18-2002, 05:07 PM

'North America" meaning maybe Mexico and Canada, you won't be seeing an MB Diesel in the US (in a car or SUV) anytime soon.

Gilly

ML320 · #23 08-18-2002, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gillybenztech
'North America" meaning maybe Mexico and Canada, you won't be seeing an MB Diesel in the US (in a car or SUV) anytime soon.

Gilly

Dan,

MBUSA plans to introduce an E-Class diesel for 2004 in all 50 states in the USA. It runs best with low sulfur diesel which is now available from British Petroleum at ARCO stations in California. ECD-1 diesel. Here is the article from the Wall Street Journal again, announcing it:

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/diesels_come_back.txt

More info is on my diesel page:

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/diesel.html

Wolfgang

Lebenz · #24 08-19-2002, 12:08 AM

Wolfgang,

Thanks for the link to WSJ article! And, it is a delight to see you here!

Best Regards

Gilly · #25 08-19-2002, 12:53 AM

First of all, I would like to see MB bring a Diesel back to the US. Regardless of what the article states, based on my observations I really don't think it'll happen (and if it does I'll be the first to delete this whole thread

).
Reason being that I believe they can make the engine in question 50 state legal (I have been told NO MORE 48 or 49 state vehicles by MB) but only on the cleaner fuel, #1 Diesel fuel minimum, BUT and this is a big BUT, they will in all likelyhood be required to ensure that only the appropriate fuel is used. Probably what they will be required to do is try to get the fuel industry to make up a system similar to the restrictor necks used for unleaded fuel. I don't know if they could get the industry to go along with that or not.

Gilly

ML320 · #26 08-19-2002, 11:09 AM

Tracy,

yes, good to see you here.

Gilly,

Offering a diesel for sale in 50 states doesn't imply it's the same engine made 50 state legal. It may well have different versions. The Sprinter van e.g. is available in 50 states soon, and probably with some modifications to accomodate stricter CA, MA, VT, NY emissions. It uses the OM 612, and not yet either the OM647 DE 27 LA from the new E-Class or OM 642 planned for the 04 E. By 2006 most US diesel will be low sulfur at around 15 ppm. I think it's less of a technical than a marketing problem.

A friend in Appleton, WI, is looking for a Sprinter passenger van and we have trouble finding a dealer. Any suggestions, since that's close to you guys. Freightliner Chicago was of no help and Tennesee is a bit far.

Wolfgang

G-Man · #27 08-19-2002, 11:30 AM

The 350 turbo diesel was a rather ill-fated engine. It has been out of production since about '96 I think, when it was replaced by the 4 valve per cylinder 300TD. The IFAV G used by the US military uses a 2.9L TD. This is a 461 series vehicle not found in the US.

The 350 ML I suspect is just a slightly enlarged version of the current gas V6. If we were to see a TD in an ML I would hope for the 270cdi or maybe even a 400cdi! I don't think it is likely the ML will ever be sold here with a diesel, not much of a market for it. I sure would like to see them expand the G offerings with one of the fantastic new cdi diesels though

benz320 · #28 08-19-2002, 05:30 PM

Some infor about the ML350 is at:
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/071002_ML350_and_SE_Release.pdf

BTW, why is it called ML350, when it has a 3.7L engine????????????

Gilly · #29 08-20-2002, 12:37 AM

I would tend to agree that the Diesel engine in the MB cars will be made available if Diesel fuel in the whole US is regulated to low-sulphur. I don't believe it will happen under the condition that low sulphur fuel is made available as an option only. This means truck stops, etc will only be selling low sulphur. Although one option I can think of is to use an unleaded fuel type restrictor in the filler neck and use an unleaded fuel nozzle on the low-sulphur pumps, this probably would satisty the EPA that low-sulphur fuel will only go into the tank, within a reasonable doubt. I just don't know if the fuel industry will embrace the idea though.

The point I was trying to make is that MB no longer wants to sell "California" version cars (meets stricter emissions), they want to sell only versions legal to sell in all 50 states, so if it's not legal to sell in CA, you won't see them offering it. I have heard (from MB sources) this is the reason the Diesel went out of the US market after 1999.

I hate to sound like I don't want to see the Diesel coming to the US market, just the opposite is true, but this I feel is the reality of it.

I am not sure, never had anyone ask about a Sprinter passenger van. I would think it would be marketed through MB car dealers if they were going to offer it in the US as it is a passenger vehicle. It would need, I would think, some different crash-worthiness testing for the seating positions, etc. Maybe you could start a new thread asking if anyone has seen a passenger version in the US, and have one of our astute posters corner the driver and find out where they got it. Or better yet call Mercedes.

In regards to the displacement question, there will sometimes be inaccuracies like this for various reasons. One good example is the C240, which is actually a 2.6 liter. Evidently there is a C260 already in Europe, and for some odd reason they didn't want to use the C260 badge here in the US. WHY? Beats me. Also evidently in 2003 the C230 sportcoupe is now a 1.9, but I've seen a 2003 sportcoupe and it has the same badge on it. All caused by marketing I assume.

Gilly

ML320 · #30 08-20-2002, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gillybenztech
I am not sure, never had anyone ask about a Sprinter passenger van. I would think it would be marketed through MB car dealers if they were going to offer it in the US as it is a passenger vehicle. It would need, I would think, some different crash-worthiness testing for the seating positions, etc. Maybe you could start a new thread asking if anyone has seen a passenger version in the US, and have one of our astute posters corner the driver and find out where they got it. Or better yet call Mercedes.

Gilly,

MBUSA refuses to sell the Sprinter passenger and cargo vans since they are too utilitarian and not luxurious enough. Thus the only MB diesel engines presently for sale in the USA (OM 612, 270 CDI, like in the E 270 CDI, ML 270 CDI, G 270 CDI) are available from Freightliner dealers today.

Mercedes Sprinter passenger vans can carry 10 passengers, more than the ML or Suburban and one can walk inside, get 22 MPG average with a 154 hp 5 cylinder turbodiesel. They just got an update for MY03, new clear headlights, new radio, and even ESP, a first on commercial vans, and are MB's most popular commercial vehicle as far as I know. Starting at $26,000 or so. We found some in stock at Freightliner of Knoxville in Tennesee. Thanks.

Wolfgang