Well, I’ve had my 2000 ML-320 for about a month now and have (skim) read the literature that came with it and read much of the information on this board. A question came to mind that I have not seen posted here before.

For routine service, are we really looking to Do It Yourself or are we I looking to Have It Done For Less?

Let me explain.

I just filled up my gas tank. I paid about $1.95 a gallon for premium 93 octane. Sure, I’d like to pay less, but the person before me and after me paid the same as me. Some will use a lower grade of gas and pay less, but the difference is not that much. But imagine for a moment if you will that next to you filling up your Mercedes another SUV pulled up next to you and filled up for $.24 a gallon. Now let’s extend this. The next time you filled up let’s say you needed to fill up with ‘B’ fuel and had to pay $3.95 a gallon, yet that other SUV got to fill up again at $.24 a gallon.

My service booklet details what is covered in a ‘A’ and ‘B’ service. Now lots of the listed items are ‘Fluff’ or things the drive through oil change places also do (check the tire pressure, check all fluid levels) plus some things that take very little time like check like the tire pressure in the spare, check the parking break and a few other things. I have read and now know I can reset the FSS service counter myself. With my other vehicle I can get a oil change for about $24. The local Mercedes dealer told me an ‘A’ service is $195 and a ‘B’ is $395 for my ML-320.

What is so special that the amount is this much? OK, lets factor in the special synthetic oil and unique filter. I have called around to two non-Mercedes service centers and was quoted $77 at one place and $93 at another. They both said they would use Mobil 1 synthetic, they also understood it will take 8 ½ quarts and they do most of the items listed on the ‘A’ service listing. The few little things they did not do as a standard like check the tire pressure in the spare seems like I could do myself, heck, if I ask them to do it I’m willing to guess it would not jump the price up to $195 but would just do it for free or very little more.

The ‘B’ service seems even more extreme at $395. OK, the dealer will replace a few items, like the dust filter, possibly replace the windshield wipers (my service book is not clear if this is done or they wipers are just looked at.) Other then this, it’s pretty much just inspections. Rotate the tires? That is also very inexpensive, especially when done with an oil change. Check the break pads? My prior experience tells me other places will do this for a very nominal fee or even no additional free wile rotating the tires and changing the oil.

Under the warrantee, I get one more 'B' service at no additional charge. Of course I will take advantage of this. The question is "What I will do when the next service comes due?"

Again, I’m not troubled with paying $1.95/gallon for gas, but I would be if the next person paid $.24.

What are your thoughts?

Hi Houston
I guess the "gas price" comparison is a little too abstract for me in relation to your real question.

MB has this service work that they want you to do. The whole link to when this work is done MB seems satisfied to directly connect to oil condition. In other words, they have this oil life monitoring system not all that different to what other manufacturers are using, and when the oil life is about shot, they want an A or B service done.

Does it make alot of sense to relate something like a dust filter or wiper blade to an oil change? Not really, but it's easy to see that for the average consumer, it may be a convenience to go ahead and have some of this other stuff at least looked at, if not replaced, at the same time it's in for an oil change.

But, if you wanted to save some money and just get the oil and filter done (whether at the FSS interval, or one you select yourself) and at some point you feel comfortable with, do the other stuff as you see fit, I can't see the harm in that.

So if you get the oil changes done, then say a few months later the wiper aren't clearing well, go ahead and replace them, and maybe every other oil change you get the tire rotated and ask them to check the brake pads, and maybe once every year or two you replace the dust filter, etc etc, hey, it'll work fine. Maybe more visits to the shop for smaller repairs, rather than a regular schedule of work, but if it works good for you, no big deal, as I see it.

A few things you probably already have read about though, real briefly:

replace/flush brake fluid every 2 years
replace/flush coolant every 3 years
(engine)air filter and fuel filter every 60,000mi or 4 years
spark plugs every 100,000mi or 4 years
(the "4 year" items you may be getting close to needing done based on time, your 2000 may have been built late 1999, the manufacture date (month and year) is on a label on the drivers door jamb on the body side of the door jamb).

Also if it's over the 60,000 and needs a fuel filter, it will need the updated filter kit installed, which is pretty involved, you may want to go to a dealership to get the fuel filter replaced, at least if it needs this update done. If the truck is still under factory warranty, you may be able to get this done for free. If not, probably going to be "tough luck" on a freebie fuel filter. For the original owners of a truck out of warranty, seems like MB will do it for free at 60,000, but not if you bought it used.

Take care

Gilly

Gilly:

I posted under another topic, but I will repeat here. My 2000 ML320 manual indicates spark plug replacement at "5" years or 100,000 miles. Why do you keep saying 4 years?

Originally, in 99 and 98, they were recommending 4 years, 100,000 miles.
Then, they came out with this Maintenance Commitment Plan where mercedes pays for the FSS Services during the warranty period.
There is a little confusion concerning the FSS items that are affected by time.
Many techs assumed that the "born on" date on the door jamb would be the proper reference point for things like brake fluid, coolant and spark plugs for example. Some say No, the delivery date is the proper date to use, but it may be difficult determining the true delivery date, but the production date (month and year) is on this label in the door jamb.
SO, the thought I have in regards to changing the spark plug recommendation to 5 years is this:
Say a car was delivered in lets say July 2000, but it was built in January 2000, (car sat on the lot for awhile before being sold).
Car comes in, under 50,000 miles, in May of 2004, original owner, still under warranty, for an FSS service, Maintenance Commitment Plan, MB paying for it, right?
OK, tech is checking the "born on" date in the door jamb, hmmmm, car is over 4 years old, Spark Plug time!
I believe MB changed it to 5 years so there's no way the car will be eligible for free spark plug change, not unless the car sat on the lot for at least a year before being sold. (MB doesn't want to pay for those 12 or 16 spark plugs any more than you do)
I really though the interval was changed to 5 years in 2001, I could be wrong, as you seem to indicate.
But 98 and 99 it was 4 year time interval on plugs, I still believe this is better than waiting the extra year before replacing the plugs. First of all I'd worry about the plugs getting seized into the holes, and secondly, assuming the vehicle isn't constantly being stored, then it's being used in-town alot. Then you don't worry so much about the MILES being travelled but the amount of time (HOURS) the engine is running, in other words slow speed driving and idle time at stop lights, etc.
Hope this answers your questions.

Gilly

Hey Gilly,

I did check the manual, it does say 5 years for spark plugs for my 2000 ML-320. Like you said the reasons could very well be Mercedes not wanting to spend this money. OK, I was taught a trick by my father. I always assumed everyone did it. Just before I put in a new spark plug I’d put a little oil, just a small dab on the threads. This was an item I was taught to not tighten too hard. “If you are going to make a mistake,” my dad would say, “don’t tighten them enough.” Using this advice from the old horse sense guy I never had a plug I changed that I could not change again. By age 8 I was helping my Dad do the job. By 10 I did it on my motorcycle on my own. “Not bad for a girl,” he would say.

Could I ask a Hugh favor from you? On your above list, can you give me an estimate on what those regular maintenance items should cost? It’s still bothering me that the oil change is 195 bucks. Maybe if I knew that before I purchased the vehicle it wouldn’t be as bad.

Also, change the break fluid every 2 years? That seems very excessive. Does Mercedes need this far more than other vehicles? If not, wow have I been under changing a lot of other vehicles break fluid.

This compares opposite to the air filter change of only 60,000 miles, which seems not often enough. I’ve been closer to 1/3 of that on other cars. Ummmm, back to Dad’s lessons, “Hold the filter up to the sun, if you can see light through it, its fine, if not, replace it.” Course some of Dads other tidbits I have learned weren’t the best. “You skinned your knee and its bleeding? Just rub some dirt in it and it’ll be fine.”

Also, on no other vehicle did I ever change a fuel filter. Unless there is a problem, like the car will not run because it’s clogged, why would I change this? At my appointment I did ask them to check this. They claimed they did and I have the new style filter. I also asked them to check the harmonic balancer, the service tech gave me a strange look and said he has never had to replace one ever. Since I specifically asked them to activate the dash indicator light wile activating the fog lights and the said they did, and charged me 50 bucks, but they forgot the indicator light I’m far less confident that I have the new filter that can be changed with out a large bill described by others here. Dang that is bothering me. Is there any way I can check this myself? Just a FYI, the items I had them do I typed out, in detail and handed the sheet to the technician so no possible confusion or so I thought. For example: #2 All Activity Module reprogram – activate fog lights and dash indicator light.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not poor. I laid down cash for my ML-320. Heck, my need to not waste was instilled at a young age. “You can’t leave the table unless your plate is clean” was taught to me by age 2. Today even when I go to the all you can eat buffet I don’t waste food. It’s just who I am. I have no problem spending money; it’s an aspiration to not waste it that is in play here.

Sorry if these questions are basic, I’m learning Mercedes are very different then other vehicles to keep. I’ve owned ‘cuda’s to Corvettes to Mustangs. I always thought they were high on the upkeep, yet they pale to this vehicle. I must admit its causing some buyers remorse. Never before have I experienced this when nothing unexpected broke. I guess its pay back time, after I purchased the ‘cuda from a guy that swore it had a blown engine I got it running in his driveway. I remember seeing tears run down his cheek as I drive off. I’m even beginning to think your comment on rotating the air inside the tires was not a joke (different message string.) OK, I’m not quite that gullible.

Thanks again for all the help.

Gilly:

I hear what you say, but it sounds more like a service writer (salesman) talking to me who is looking to sell me unnecessary services. This is the first time I have ever heard of "any" manufacturer requiring spark plug replacement based upon a calendar time requirement. I can understand an engine hours of operation requirement, but this sounds like a real money making scheme for Mercedes techs. If the only purpose is because of the spark plug seizing in the hole over a certain period of time, why not just use antiseize compound? If antiseize does not work, why not just remove the plug, clean and replace the antiseize, and reinstall?

Mercedes is telling us the transmission fluid is a lifetime fill and engine oil changes only need to be done at 10,000 - 12,000 mile intervals but sparkplugs have to be replaced every four(4) years. What's wrong with this picture?

When Mercedes adopted the FSS system, went to 100,000 mile plugs and made other changes, I thought the primary purpose was to reduce the amount of periodic servicing required for a Mercedes vehicle to make them more competitive with other vehicles that did not require the extent of servicing of a Mercedes.

I am becoming convinced that the only purpose of the 4 year/50,000 mile free maintenance that Mercedes offers is to keep the typical first buyer (who usually only keep their cars during the warranty period) from seeing the true cost of Mercedes ownership. They only care about the original owner and no longer care about lifetime durability. Keep people trading ever few years (its cheaper than owing long-term) and pump up the new car sales volume. The Chrysler philosophy is bleeding all over them! Hopefully, some day the Mercedes techs will reduce their hourly shop charges from $100/hr. to $75/hr. like the Chrysler techs charge.

Houston, It seems to me your father tought you well. On the subject of the gas filter, I have no intention of changing mine until it gives me some indication it needs changing. I buy my gas from stations that filter their gas and do a high volume business, so I'm not buying dirty gas. Even if I do get some, the fuel filter should have the capacity to handle a lot of it. I put well over 200,000 miles on my Pontiac with the original filter without any problem. If MB found it necessary to change the design to the extent the new filter is not interchangable; and the old filter is not even offered; and the owner has to pay big bucks to update their vehicles; this doesn't reflect well on MB. They should have recalled the early vehicles and paid to correct their mistake, and not make the owners pay for their goof. We paid big bucks for these trucks and expect better from MB.

On the subject of the air filter; one must look at the roads one drives on. There are some areas of the country where the vehicles throw up a dust cloud when they travel (i.e.dirt roads). These vehicles pull in a lot of that dust into the air cleaner. The areas I drive in are all paved and the roads are kept clean by frequent rainfall. Whenever I inspect the air filter it always looks like new. Since the air filter isn't very costly I will change it long before I think it needs it anyway, but not as soon as MB would like me to buy a new one.

I do remove my plugs every four years; inspect them; clean the threads and lightly coat them with NeverSeize compound. They will corrode into the head if given enough time, and this could be costly.

__________________
Tom H.

Hey Gilly,

After re-reading the string above it sounds harsh.

To be clear, I'm here to learn and after reviewing hundreds of posts I highly value your wisdom. I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to learn.

Hi Houston
Reread the thread again. I'm not the one being harsh. I won't name names, YOU tell ME who's being harsh (ps it's not you).

The spark plug ideas you have are fine, I prefer to NOT use antiseize on spark plugs, it's not really meant for a high temp environment, and me, being a good German, won't do it unless MB says you're supposed to. Also I recommend torqing things to spec, the spark plugs are torqued to 28nm, I suggest obtaining a torque wrench and tightening the plugs based on the spec, not "feel".

If you want to just remove the plugs, clean threads, anti-sleaze them, fine. They're about 2 bucks a piece if you shop them out, you decide what to do.

If you'd rather not replace the fuel filter until the engine gives you some indication that there's a problem, that's fine too. However there is a reason it's called "preventative maintenance", and don't come callin me when you're engine is runnin like crap and you were supposed to be at O'Hare 1/2 an hour ago .

Now if you'll excuse me, there is someone in the service entrance who needs their mufflers rotated .

Gilly

Gilly:

Sorry, but I am just a stubborn old german who has a hard time believing all of these "extended" maintenance schedules that Mercedes (and other manufacturers) promote to make it appear that operation costs for their vehicles are low. I am one of those diehards who believe in maintenance if you expect anything you own to last.

You have convinced me to replace my sparkplugs at both a time/mileage interval. However, if the time interval should be 4 years, Mercedes should be picking this up under their maintenance warranty. Like you say, sparkplugs are 2 bucks apiece (less at dealer cost) plus whatever labor time is allowed for this procedure. If Mercedes is comfortable with a 5 year interval I will probably go with that since my 2000 ML320 has only 37,800 miles with most all miles being highway miles.

It seems as though all manufactureres are going to 100,000 mile sparkplugs, but until this thread, I have never heard of replacing sparkplugs on a time interval for those of us who do not put a lot of miles on our vehicles each year. It makes sense to me and it appears that there needs to be some consumer awareness done for all owners of vehicles equipped with these new 100,000 mile plugs.

P.S. - This may not be an issue for some of those American vehicles out there where a 100,000 mile sparkplug may be a "lifetime" plug. It may even outlast the rest of the vehicle. HeHeHe!