How are we going to verify? Does Bush really tell us anything beyond platitudes. Yeah we've killed 3/4 of Al-Queda's leadership or of Al-Queda, whatever, but Bush offers NOTHING to back it up. All that I know is that the most prominent member of Al-Queda, the one I know about, is still out there plotting against us.
The other thing I do know is that whenever one of Bush's minions is called on the carpet (9/11 Commision anyone?) they say things like "We had NO idea that Bin_Laden was planning an attack inside the US" (Condi Rice) Then we here about the PDF titled "Bin Laden planning to attack inside the US". I think Kirk is absolutely justified to not trust Bush. Anytime I've had a chance to compare the statements of this administration and the facts they've come up on the short end of the truth. But hey, keep saying something and some of the people will believe it. Right Bot?
While I'm on the subject I find your (Bot) bias against any of the facts that Kirk offers interesting considering that you're always willing to take the opposite position based firmly (and IMO intellectually dishonestly) in the truth of what George Bush says vis a vis what we have witnessed. WMD? No nation building? Gay marriage? Compassionate conservative? same old same old, etc.

Of course you're always justified not to trust people who have power over your life. Whether JFK, FDR, or whomever, I don't care.

Nor should you put faith in humans, you faith will be betrayed every time.

Use reason, use intuition, use common sense and where possible, use what facts you can find.

I understand that about 40% of the voters think Bush is a liar. Does that make him a liar? If about 40% don't think he's a liar, does that make him truthful? The answer to both questions is, "NO".

This is why I look for the policy, not the man or woman. This means I don't have to depend upon the caprice of a politician. I vote based on the policies that I think best serve my interests.

You want to waste your time decrypting the soul of a politician, be my guest.

B

I don't really care about George Bush's soul. It's his policies I can't stand. The issue that I have is that you're (IMO) taking Bush's policies at face value. Well, invading Iraq didn't make me safer and didn't have a real place in the "War on Terror" but contrary to the evidence I've seen if you believe Bush, it did.
Same with his tax cuts, or his Medicaid plan, etc.

Feingold seems like a straight shooter. I like Gene Taylor, too. But I don't put my faith in them any more than I would in a dog. Less than a dog. You know the dog will be the same tomorrow as yesterday, I don't think the same of people unless I've formed some bond. Like my family. Shipmates with whom I still correspond after 35 years or so. But people I don't know? Why bother?

Its good and fine not to agree with policy, LK1. That's the fundamental assumption and nature of representative democracy. If you're successful you may have sufficient influence, through your vote, to change policy. That's as it should be and we'll all hope for the best, work to deal with the new relationship in some manner of compromise.

It may also be that my particular policy goals will hold.
Bot

I hope someone finds his policies of value. I think he operates on a single policy of stepping in dog$hit and then trying to tell us all it not dog$hit, but something of value. The only thing he does not flip-flop on that I have observed, from a policy perspective, is his continual resorting to a chant that brown, smelly, pasty stuff on his shoes, which seems to always be there, is really something we should all desire enough to clean off his shoes for him.
Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Look at the words you use, its all personalized.

I take it you do not plan to vote for this fellow any time soon.

Interesting reading
Its still more a matter of "will" as opposed to "fact". KV was asking for " metrics" to enable him to evaluate the war effort. However, I doubt that KV would accept, at face value, or any other way, any data posted by the administration. I also thought that one of the mistakes from VietNam that we were going to avoid, was the " body bag count".
How would anyone objectively evaluate any such data? I think we would simply argue over its worth, and that wouldn't advance this one iot fron where it is, or has been.

and uniter and not a devider... isn't that the funniest thing you have ever heard.

Richard Lugar is pretty down to earth old school farm boy/Sen (R-IN)

JimSmith, nice/creative analogy...

__________________
72 W114/M130

RedMeat cartoon

Worse than Clinton? You have to be kidding. There are still anti clinton nuts standing on the street corner with signs saying he killed foster. Bob Barr just wrote another book on the man. Do you recall the daily deluge of hate directed at him?

IMO Bush has been getting a pass compared the the hatchet job that Clinton recieved.