The Bush administration is expected to soon revise the eligibility formula that qualifies college students for Pell Grants, possibly rendering 84,000 students ineligible for the grant next year, according to the Chronicle of Higher Education. The Federal Pell Grant Program is the largest federal aid program for college students and provides need-based grants from $400-$4,050 based on a formula that calculates a student's need.

In the administration's proposed plan, the amount of state and local taxes paid would not play as large a role in the formula used to determine need, thus increasing a student's or family's calculated household income and decreasing a student's calculated need. If a student's calculated need is not great enough, he or she will be ineligible for the grant. In addition, the amount a student receives is also based on calculated need, so some students may receive less next year if their need decreases. However, Bush's plan would keep the maximum Pell Grant at $4,050 for the third year in a row.

The changes will save the Education Department $270 million and will help remedy the $3.7 billion budget shortfall the Pell Grant Program is currently experiencing. Bush also requested $458 million more than was allocated last year for the program.

Excellent. Killing another federal give-away is fine with me. Anybody who wants to support a student is free to do so. Be my guest. I spent time in the military and then worked my a$$ off to go to university. If you want it, work for it.

You didn't take any of that GI bill money did you?

It was part of the agreement under which I entered military service. Like retirement bennies, SSI, subsidized insurance and funeral expenses.

Damn taxpayer supported entitlement programs. Four years on the job and a lifetime on the dole.

Nuthin' to it! Yeah, those sneaky-petes in Iraq are getting the deal of a lifetime.

You sign-up and take your chances. Could be lucky like me and merely spend 4 years in a ship's boiler room or maybe like another veteran on this board and get shrapnel and permanent disability. It's a great gamble for people who have what it takes. I highly recommend it.

Hey they get a paycheck right? Three hots and a cot. Why should my hard earned money be taken from me at gunpoint to pay for their education and health care for the next 50 years? It's my money. You want to send a veteran to school be my guest. But its my money

MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE

You're right about the money. Glad we agree on that. Now lets start from that point and move forward.

What tangible service does a Pell Grant recipient render unto the taxpayers? Is there a contract spelling it out?

What tangible service does an enlistee render unto the taxpayers? Is there a contract spelling it out?

higher education corelates with higher income (I think it's about half a million over a lifetime on average)
higher income leads to more tax revenue (income taxes)
higher income leads to more spending (sales tax)

better eductated people also live heathier lives (lower state covered med bills) and in general consume less government services (again cheaper)

Better educated people also are more likely to be self employed and to employ others (more people working is good)

When I went to college I got (probably) $6400 in Pell grants. Eight Semesters at 800 a crack. I guarantee that the government has recouped its investment in me.

And that's all it is, an investment in our people, and a pretty good one.

Bot, while I agree with your agument in principle and strongly feel that I am best at spending my own money I think Koop's response was one of the best and most thoughtful (and logical) arguments for his point I have ever read on this board. Bravo. Money spent on raising the educational level of our population is a good investment. Period.
If all government programs met that standard our expenditures would go down to 10% of what they are now and revenues would ultimately go through the roof. Of course all those people studying the mating habits of the Tse-Tse fly on government grants would be SOL.

That has nothing to do with plants does it? Because Botanists do similiar things like dig in rodent droppings for plant seeds.

__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

LK1
Ditto
Anyone ever hear/read about "Notch Babies"? Contract with the government broken by the same to subsidize SS recipients that are not Notchers.

__________________
Steve
'87 300TD - 132K - Soon 4-Sale
'84 300D Turbo - 122K - Driving
'77 VW Type II - 77K - Restored
'08 250EX Ninja
English Bulldog (Brier) - My best friend. Passed away 12/02/04 while in my arms.

This is a loss for everyone. Part of my ability to afford school was due to the Pell grant system. Assisting folks who are motivated is a far far better use of tax dollars than doling it out to fill in the blank who spend most of the time doing little more to advance themselves than breathing.

To echo koop’s comment, the difference in my taxes attributable to school is enough to pay a Professor’s salary.

Oh well, everyone knows that upper education should only be available to the wealthy.

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

While we are cutting education aid China, India and the EU are increasing theirs. It is a calculated move on their part - in a knowledge based economy, educated humans are a key raw material. Perhaps one should consider that many economists credit the GI Bill as one of the reasons for the huge economic boom of the 60s. During that time we were able to sustain a huge increase in our manufacturing base because we had the educated people available to run them.

Preparation to be a citizen of the US in the future need not include a degree. Fat, dumb, happy drug addicts just need food and a TV set. Besides, they need that grant money to move jobs overseas and illegal aliens here.