The US is choked with debts, almost 8 Trillion!!! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

KirkVining · #16 12-15-2004, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash9

Maybe not. Consider this – SSI is toast, so we encourage private SS. Huge demand – unending – until the $$ has little value. It’s the only way out – let the party begin. Duke&Duke here – please note the market has broken out to the upside as the $$ has accelerated it’s decline.
You may also be right – best to not try to figure it out and just follow along, without being committed to any one vehicle. I’m buying water companies.

But the upside in the market has been choppy, and it hasn't been much. The pump for the market you describe is the exact reasons the Republicans want it so bad - it means enormous short term gains in the market for the very rich, and a new Internet-style bubble. What's on the other side of that? One hell of a lot of broke old people. That is real stewardship - a plan that will leave massive debt and bankrupt elders to our children and grandchildren, which is why Congress is never going to go along with it. Buy Euro dominated mutuals and Canadian stock. The ones I bought four months ago are on the way to buying my next Mercedes.

MTI · #17 12-15-2004, 01:21 PM

The misinformation they gave our soldiers . . . they were fighting a winnable war . . . when even the Eisenhower administration knew it wasn't really possible.

boneheaddoctor · #18 12-15-2004, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djugurba

Bailing a sinking ship with a thimble- We already don't pay up on foreign debts. Hell, we don't pay our UN dues either.

But, Israel is still the #1 foreign aid recipient... From 1949-1997, the U.S. has given Israel a total of $83.205 billion. The interest costs borne by U.S. tax payers on behalf of Israel are $49.937 billion, thus making the total amount of aid given to Israel from 1947-1997 $133.132 billion. This may mean that U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen. Oh yeah, and these are 1997s numbers- they've likely doubled by now.

The US "budget" is such a sham. Only a balanced budget law/amendment can save us now... or an actual fiscal conservative in office. Clinton seems to have done a pretty good job at that part of his job.

oh but wait, it's all 'cause we're still paying for Bosnia. right.

Pay our dues to a corrupt organization ?

You ever hear the joke about How the United nations is different than the Mafia?

THe Mafia holds their people accountible....

KirkVining · #19 12-15-2004, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Oh Right, the VC and NVA really weren't communists tryinig to impose their will upon the south after all...........................

They were actually peacefull Swiss who were misunderstood.

ERROR: Subject change warning

boneheaddoctor · #20 12-15-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirkVining

ERROR: Subject change warning

KV read if thats possible for you......I am not the one who introduced Vietnam into the discussion....

crash9 · #21 12-15-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirkVining

But the upside in the market has been choppy, and it hasn't been much.

It’s not really been that choppy if you look at a monthly chart. The move down to correct the grossly overbought situation from the 95-2000 market was normal (if anything is truly normal) we hesitated at a 50% retracement of that down move (50% is that point where on average all the players en mass break even for a given move) and now we are looking up to 1300 which is where the real important work will be done. You’d expect an ugly move down from there – the long term uptrend line is way back at 850 – but if we should move rapidly through 1300 we’re off to the races and can look for as much as 2200. Seems very unlikely, but anything but just following along with whatever happens is very foolish.

KirkVining · #22 12-15-2004, 02:39 PM

The speculative forces in the market are just right for an upturn, I will agree with that - but the problem is the psychological forces are utterly precarious. Underneath the radar is an uneasiness in the direction of government fiscal and foriegn policy that gives the market the sense that it is like walking along the top of a wooden fence. That is one of the reasons I have been so adamant of the need to capture Bin Laden - it would release the psychological tension of terrorism as being a sword dangling over our head a great deal and take some of the fear out of the market. In fiscal policy, the government's inability to send a message to the markets that they intend to curb spending, coupled with the government's total inability to come up with any kind of plan that will reduce our oil consumption, create a psychology of uneasiness in the world markets. The end result is we have a market that is very sensitive to any kind of external event - a second attack by bin Laden, especially one that caused oil prices to rise, or any other possible combinations of negative events - and we are off to a whole different kind of races. Uneasiness turns quickly to fear and fear turns to dumping stocks.

TwitchKitty · #23 12-15-2004, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirkVining

They are not transfering wealth, they are creating debt and then transfering the cash raised thru debt to those who already have all the money. It is a distortion of our ecomomic system caused by failed fiscal policies. All these tax cuts were supposed to stimulate economic growth, resulting in more money for the treasury under their theories, and this has simply not happened. They have razzled-dazzled everyone with GDP numbers and other economic shadow boxing, while all of us are blind to one fact - the US Stock Market has not risen jack$hit the entire time this administration has been in office. The Stock Market measures the actual increase in wealth in this country - it reflects the rising value of our business assets, and that is what really drives tax collections, creates new wealth, increases personal incomes and most importantly creates jobs. Hasn't anyone noticed that the stagnant stock market has gone hand in hand with a net loss of jobs? Or the deficit? We talked about absolutely none of this in the last election. We have elections over Clinton's dick or Kerry's wife. We have become a stupid country. The last real election this country had was in 1992 when Perot forced us to talk about these things. Now we get endless days of Swift Boat stupidity and Cheney telling us we will be nuked if anyone votes for Kerry, or heaven forbid gays will start getting married. The people are no longer making the decisions in this country because they are not even talking about what needs to be decided.

Agreed, the government transfers money more than wealth. This really is more accurate. Money no longer really represents wealth. Our economy is no longer based on production, debt driven economy, transaction based economy.

Your statement about the stock market measuring actual wealth increase may need another look. Stock prices fluctuate by demand created by marketing and not always by real production of wealth. The fact that the market can loose much of its value overnight also indicates that it does not represent real wealth.

KirkVining · #24 12-15-2004, 05:41 PM

Well, wealth in is just an abstract any way - it is what other people think that particular thing you have is worth. That is influenced by many,many factors, supply and demand being one, but by all kinds of psychological intangibles as well. For decades our stocks had a price premium because people in other countries thought the US was a stable growing economy and that we were a net creditor and had a government that practiced fiscal sanity. That raised the asset value of the companies, in turn reflected in their stock price, for no other reason than perception. At the heart of the decline of the value of the dollar is a world-wide reassesment of that view now that we have become a debtor nation, a term I remember being used in the 60s to describe places like Bolivia. This same reassesment may be coming to the Stock Market. Today's news was ominous, as Cheney went off another rant about more tax cuts. To a foriegn investor, Cheney is saying this government wants to create more debt. How did countries like Bolivia handle their debt problems? Simple, they printed more money and inflated their economies with paper. It is the possibility that that could happen here that makes bond holders extremely nervous. If the Saudis and Chinese start dumping bonds, stocks will come right after it. The solution? Get our sailor-drunk government to stop spending so damn much debt-financed money. They just raised the debt ceiling another 800 billion, and Cheney has said we need more tax cuts. Get the picture? The rich are robbing the poor, and the poor's kids and grand kids.

83-240D · #25 03-16-2005, 12:04 PM

and for 592 million american dollars we are going to build an embassy in baghdad. wtf are we getting for that money? that is unconscionable when the military needs body armor for soldiers and real armor for the humvees!!

in who's lifetime are we getting out of iraq?