yea, yea, yea, and Japan was gonna buy up all of the US in the seventies....blah, blah, blah,,,my god you guys are doom and gloom, what a sad lot.....

I recall in the late 70's my computer geek roomate saying the US was turning into a service and information-based society. I countered that you need a manufacturing base to keep the flow of goods from getting lop-sided. What good is an economy that doesn't produce tangible things? Why lose all that manufacturing know-how and flexibility that, for example, got the US thru WWII? Well he was proven to be right. What wasn't obvious back then was how the playing field would spread world-wide, pitting us almost directly against a cheap Mexican and Asian labor force, who by the way, also are good with information technology.

Where does that leave us? We need to exploit niche markets. China's booming economy could bring many opportunities. For example we have 30-40 years of experience with occupational safety and environmental standards. A lot of their dirty industries need to be cleaned up before they suffocate in their own filth, and these are skill and technologies we can readily provide. As China's oil consumption goes up, we will find innovative and practical ways to harness other energy sources, possibly opening whole new markets.

Trade agreements everywhere will continue to flatten the differences between countries. This means more pain in the form of shrinking incomes and less job security as we adjust to the new reality. Perhaps shipping costs will make foreign goods more expensive, ie less competitive, but I don't expect a reversal of this trend any time soon.

Interesting, Hyundai opened a big new plant in Alabama alongside others including Mercedes, making that state a major international player. Whoda thunk?

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

There is also the fact that countries that wind up having flourishing economies will no longer be able to be controlled by a communist or facist dictator, the people will have too much strength.

If china were to become a decent democracy like we are, there would be nothing to fear. In fact, it would be a huge market for us to now tap into for selling things.

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER

Tuesday, August 30, 2005 · Last updated 8:10 a.m. PT

Poverty rate rises to 12.7 percent

By JENNIFER C. KERR
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

WASHINGTON -- The nation's poverty rate rose to 12.7 percent of the population last year, the fourth consecutive annual increase, the Census Bureau said Tuesday.

The percentage of people without health insurance did not change.

Overall, there were 37 million people living in poverty, up 1.1 million people from 2003.

Asians were the only ethnic group to show a decline in poverty - from 11.8 percent in 2003 to 9.8 percent last year. The poverty rate among the elderly declined as well, from 10.2 percent in 2003 to 9.8 percent last year.

The last decline in overall poverty was in 2000, when 31.1 million people lived under the threshold - 11.3 percent of the population.

The number of people without health insurance grew from 45 million to 45.8 million. At the same time, the number of people with health insurance coverage grew by 2 million last year.

Charles Nelson, an assistant division chief at the Census Bureau, said the percentage of uninsured remained steady because of an "increase in government coverage, notably Medicaid and the state children's health insurance program, that offset a decline in employment-based coverage."

The median household income, meanwhile, stood at $44,389, unchanged from 2003. Among racial and ethnic groups blacks had the lowest median income and Asians the highest. Median income refers to the point at which half of households earn more and half earn less.

Regionally, income declined only in the Midwest, down 2.8 percent to $44,657. The South was the poorest region and the Northeast and the West had the highest median incomes.

The increase in poverty came despite strong economic growth, which helped create 2.2 million jobs last year.

"I guess what happened last year was kind of similar to what happened in the early 1990s where you had a recession that was officially over and then you had several years after that of rising poverty," Nelson said. "... These numbers do reflect changes between 2003 and 2004. They don't reflect any improvements in the economy in 2005."

Sheldon Danziger, co-director of the National Poverty Center at the University of Michigan, said the poverty number is still much better than the 80s and early 90s.

"The good news is that poverty is a lot lower than it was in 1993, but we went through a hell of an economic boom," Danziger said. "Nobody is predicting we're going to go through another economic boom like that."

The poverty threshold differs by the size and makeup of a household. For instance, a family of four with two children was considered living in poverty if income was $19,157 or less. For a family of two with no children, it was $12,649. For a person 65 and over living alone, it was 9,060.

The estimates on poverty, uninsured and income are based on supplements to the bureau's Current Population Survey, and are conducted over three months, beginning in February, at about 100,000 households nationwide.

The only city with a million or more residents that exhibited a significant change in poverty level last year was New York City, which saw the rate increase from 19 percent to 20.3 percent.

----

On the Net:

Census Bureau: http://www.census.gov

Well... Hmmmm... You're right. I never see any Hondas or Toyotas on the road. And heavy equiptment? Nahhhhh... I only see Cats on the job sites.

What about electronics? Never see Made in Japan. Sony? Who are they.

Those companies all have the same market share as they had in the 1970's... just like you said.

Right.

You get to wear the Maroon shirt this year for SURE!

China's transformation to democracy will be their biggest challenge in the next decade. Once they have a significant middle class, China will need democracy to sustain its economic development. The big question is how this political reform will take place. Are their current (former communist) leaders willing and capable to share or even hand over their power? Russia's example so far is not very promising. It's really too early to tell if China will able to make that shift, and be that global economic power it now appears it will be.

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2011 Prius

This is the most absurd thing I've heard thus far! I'm not even going to waste my time and everyone's time addressing Iraq.... The long-term benefits to having a stable, representative government in Iraq are obvious....

I'm talking about the tax cuts comment:

The tax cuts were BAD for the economy?!?! You MUST be insane. The PEOPLE of this nation ARE the economy! NOT the government. Anything that puts more money in the hands of the people that earned it is GOOD for the economy.

EVERY time taxes have been cut in the past, regardless of which party was the majority at the time, there was an upswing in the economy. EVERY TIME.

There are a LOT of things our President and our government needs to stop spending our money on. Iraq and tax cuts are NOT among them.

Mike

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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
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1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
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1985 300TD
270,000 miles
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1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
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www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

Quiz:
can you tell me when they "redefined" what poverty means?

Hint, it was recent enough to distort all the stats on it.
Your little stats up there prove nothing, NOTHING.

Every word you said is true. My bet is that the political system will make the change over, it will become a flourishing democracy.

The basic problem is the ability to do it while "saving face" to those who always opposed China being a democracy. Dont ever underestimate the power of "saving face" in Asia. I have traveled there 5 times in the last year, and am going on 9/15. It makes people over there who are otherwise intelligent and rational suddently turn into boneheads.

So, Japan now owns the US????

Uh, you do realize Japan's economy has been struggling for some time now?

Uh, no thanks, you can continue to wear the shirt, it fits you much better than me

Nice shot

But its not too hard to sharpshoot those who type the obvious and think its their own idea.

Ok, then have it your way. Japan has had no impact on our economy. Nor has China.

Dam, if only you people would look at WHO is buying our strategic assets and our debt. But I guess it is easy to just parrot what you hear Bush and Co. say than to become educated on world economies and geo-political view-points.

Didn't you read the article of this thread? Japan does own the biggest percentage of the US debt. And what are the most popular cars in the US? Yep, it's Toyota and Honda. Japan doesn't own the US, but it's probably the largest stock holder if you wanna look at it that way. You better put that shirt back on.

I realize the benefit of having a stable, democratic Iraq, but I don't see that happening any time soon. All I was saying is that the war is a massive drain on the economy and I'm sure the economy would be better off if this war never started.

I think you're buying into the republican tax cut propaganda too much. Tax cuts are a double edge sword. I agree that they tend to stimulate economic activity, but they also tend to increase the budget deficit, especially when accompanied by reckless spending.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Man you never get a clue do you? When did I ever say anything like that? I was patting lurpgrl on the back for a well placed shot on your attempt to insult him.

Why do you think I call you Mr. Obvious?

On ignore ya go.

I meet a lot of people who travel to China. They all report one thing, that the people of China are very happy with the way things are. There is an abundance of two things communism could never bring - consumer goods and good jobs. They also have the benefits of socialism, free health care and free education at all levels. China is becoming very democratic at the local level, but it still needs reforms at the national level. Most citizens think this will happen when the old bulls in the Politboro are dead.